- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@lemmy.bestiver.se
- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@lemmy.bestiver.se
Adafruit: From Ultimate Driving Machine to Ultimate Rent-Seeking Machine: The BMW Logo Screw Patent.
If you haven’t already heard, BMW’s R&D teams have been busy “innovating.” Unfortunately, they aren’t focusing on the things that actually matter—like stellar engine performance or the legendary driving dynamics that gearheads love. Instead, the C-suite execs decided that the best use of their engineering budget was to design a proprietary security screw specifically intended to prevent BMW drivers from fixing their own cars.
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Alright, we’ll just buy Chinese electric cars instead.
Ding ding ding, we have a winner!
VW made these funky triangle topped bolt on TDi injection pumps ( or maybe it was Bosch who cares). My buddy who’s a mechanic said “don’t mess with those ,you need special sockets”.
I took 12pt sockets and used a dremmel to grind out every other two points in the socket and had my own set to mess with the bolts they didn’t want me messing with.
I would like to get my hands on those Engineers. Do we have a term for engineers who design pro-capitalist enshittification tech ?
Enshitineers?
Nice catch lol
I’ll never buy a car that has subscription features
Until they force you. Like how pretty much all new housing developments have oppressive HOAs now.
I am so happy to live in a non-HOA neighborhood…
Clippy would never do that!
Harbor freight will have these weird screwdriver tips in a kit within 12 months.
Ebay definitely will
Proprietary security screws have existed for a long time. There’s a reason they’re using their logo, and its not vanity, its a weaponization of trademark law. Recreating the tip would mean recreating a trademark without authorization.
Few reputable companies will be willing to take that risk.
Sega tried this back in the 90s and already lost in court. The court ruled that by making the use of it’s trademark a required element in order to perform an otherwise lawful activity, any resulting trademark confusion was the fault of Sega.
Aliexpress will have one in about 2 weeks.
And they won’t be worried about BMW’s lawyers when they do it.
I’m not entirely sure some Chinese company that neither of us has heard of is worried about that risk.
It’d be cool to see a compatible tip with some additional breakaway segments to bypass the logo law.
Right to repair class action suit incoming.
Remember kids, every screw is a flathead with an angle grinder
Or they can be replaced
A dremel with a metal cutting wheel is easier to carry!
There is a really, really simple solution to this problem. This might sound crazy, but hear me out. Maybe don’t buy their cars? Not like there’s a lack of competition.
The new bimmers are ugly as sin.
I say that as someone who loved his e90
I loved my E36. Every one I see now is a clapped out POS except an occasional M3
I like the PlayStation stylized screw much more.
(Original credit for the image goes to an old reddit post)
I thought that was so cool when I took my PS4 apart 😂 pointless, but fun for the 1% of people who would dive under the hood.
Same!
It has two Xs lol
The O ones are the hardest to get out.
Haha, nice.
Funnily enough I’ve been talking to people a lot about screw types recently. My wife was taking some hardware out of the house and cursing the varied kinds of screws used during installation; a friend and co-worker has been obsessed with the varieties ever since I met him; and my six year old found some of the screws dropped by my wife and asked why they were different.
No biggie. In less than a week we’ll have thousands of Chinese Amazon sellers providing these tools to everyone for lose to.
You can find them next to the 10mm sockets under your workbench.
Yes, but. If they add enough “special” things you need, that will reduce the number of average people and independent mechanics that will go through the trouble of getting all the “special” tools. Thier goal isn’t to stop you. It’s to inconvenience enough people so that they won’t bother. Which drives more business to thier shops, which in turn makes them more money. And since they are publicly traded, it doesn’t even have to actually make them money. Just make the market think it might.
Its all a plan. People think I’m a conspiracy nut when i explain it. I think they’re dumb for not seeing it. Capitalism is the best planned scam.
I tie it all into how a public company’s board has a fiduciary responsability to the shareholders legally. Which means they can (and often do) get sued for doing whats best for the customer over the shareholders. It sometimes clicks with people.
And many who don’t see it aren’t dumb per se. They are more or less refusing to see it because they would have to realize that they are the slaves or pawns, or cogs in the machine. And they are not in control of thier destiny. Thats a hard thing for a lot of people to swalllow. Especially since there isn’t much they can do about it.You would think it should be in the company (and its shareholders) interests to make a product that people really want to buy, instead of becoming increasingly hostile to their customers.
This is the only focus on the ultra wealthy market, let the wanna be people pay too much, and fuck the rest of the low profit margin people.
Good news is this how you get a French/Russian Revolution. Eventually.
It’s almost, as if the article answers that question with a resounding “no, that’s not going to help either.”
But the novelty wears off the moment you consider the physics. Because this head prioritizes branding over utility, neither the bit nor the screw head can withstand the torque of a standard Torx or Hex fastener. The result? Broken bits, stripped screws, and more time spent on what would otherwise be a simple task.
neither the bit nor the screw head can withstand the torque of a standard Torx or Hex fastener
Which “standard” Torx head? Maximum torque of 0.43Nm of a T5? Or maybe 10.5Nm of a T20? 132Nm of a T50? T60 is rated for 437Nm.
If you need a bolt that can handle 50Nm, you put a head that’s sized to that on the bolt.
If it’s a Torx, you put a T40. If it’s Hex, you put an 8mm on it. And if it’s a stupid BMW one, you pick the size that can handle 50Nm. The shape doesn’t matter.
Yeah, security screws are security theatre. I had an electronics screw driver set that came with a bunch of the rarer screw bits by default. Actually ran into one I didn’t have, then noticed another set with that one (plus other features like the long bendy bit for hard to reach screws) next time I was in the tool section and just bought it.
That said, I won’t be needing this one. Driving a BMW would go against the image I’m trying to cultivate of not being an asshole.
BMW drivers have this fame of being douchebags (most absolutely are) , which makes me wonder, how the hell do we describe Tesla drivers then?
Nazi collaborators
Supercilious
In my head that sounds like what they actually want to be called, not what they are. I’m pretty sure those drivers actually want to come across as arrogant.
Until you’re halfway through putting in new brake pads and realize you need a specialty bit and now you’re stuck without a working car until you get that Amazon package.
At that point that bolt is getting destructively removed and replaced with a different bolt from the hardware store. Unless they have custom thread pitches, there’s going to be an easy replacement.
Edit but I don’t own a BMW and never will, my first car was the bargainest basement commuter car and my next one will be too.
That would be circumventing a protection mechanism. Isn’t that a violation of the DMCA in the US?
Yes and and violating anti-circumvention is now a crime… not a civil offense, prison. For repairing an item that you own.
I guess that’s what we, the labor class, get for not spending tens of millions of dollars on lobbyists like the Founding Fathers intended.
Amazon does not want to enforce this. By the time one seller is banned, 10 new accounts sell the same thing again.
The digital millennium copyright act? That thing that companies use to take down copyright violation videos and photos?
I think this is more likely patent law which is not something that has ever stopped Chinese manufacturing from producing cheaper alternatives to the same concept.
The DMCA has a section that says (high level) it is illegal to circumvent a technological protection measure that protects copyrighted materials. DMCA was used for years to prevent farmers from repairing their John Deere’s equipment themselves. They only got that 2 years ago after a legal battle. So the question is: can a fancy screw be considered a TPM?
DMCA is interpreted very widely.
It criminalizes circumventing anything that could be used to protect copywritten information. So they just add copywritten stuff where it isn’t needed to criminalize anything they don’t want you to do. It’s why washing machines now have proprietary software and circuit boards instead of mechanical switches and why printer ink cartridges have chips on board.
No. It is a physical item. So long as 5here is no branding it would be fine
As soon as the rollout for BMW dealers starts, Chinese toolmakers will churn out compatible bits and screwdrivers. They might even be on the market before the BMW dealers have them in the mail.
Every dollar store has a variety pack of “security screw” drivers
Ifixit does this with apple’s fasteners. I bet they have plans for the BMW ones now too.
My dad bought me an ifixit repair kit for my birthday or Christmas or something and it is absolutely up there with the best, most frequently used presents of the last decade. It had the weird Ring doorbell bit when I tore down Amazon’s spy doorbell. It has an odd bit for my ebike, it has all the computer and phone repair tools to crack open modern devices. This was more of a phone/tablet/computer kit. Maybe Ifixit or someone else will make a repair kit specifically for vehicles with anti-consumer “features”
You could almost manufacture it based on this image, granted that’s a 1/4" impact bit. All it would take is one bolt being smuggled to their factory or one photograph of a spec sheet.
Unless im missing something about the design, theres a fairly common bit already on the market that works for this, and Id assume most auto shops already have laying around. My dewalt 50 piece came with one…
Bit looks like ( https://share.google/KHdg0HfO6zC9bab9O)That one of those 2 pin spanner wrencheswith one on an arm that swings to adjust size, as far as asshole design security screws go, im not too mad at this… accomplishes what it needs to (keeping some rando with a screwdriver in his pocket from just deciding to undo some exposed screws for ‘fun’, or stealing your car trim) without being so proprietary pwople who arent preppared can’t undo it with tools at hand (like the apple Pentalobe screws, and various triangle and tritip Philips variants, really anything with an odd number of contact points is immediatly more of a pita)
Ouch with that google share link
that’s not the only issue, it’s also just a plainly worse design that will likely lead to lots of broken screws and bits.
Torqued to spec AND properly aligned.
I’m sure they will but that requires owners to go out and buy a kit of specialty tools for that one job, which may be too much investment. And many people are just not savvy enough to do that, they see “specialty tools” and throw up their hands.
Have you done any work on your own vehicle? Because buying a tool just to do one job happens all the time.
I’m a professional, I have thousands of tools I use on a regular basis, and I use them to make money
Whoh thousands and not hundreds?
If you work on your own car you have enough savvy to go out and get a specialty bit.
You might also elect not to. Tell me, what do you think is the purpose of this special fastener?
It’s a special bit, that’s it. Do you have any idea how many bits/sockets/adapters I already own that only fit one vehicle? TONS. That’s just the nature of vehicles and maintenance. And I’m pretty sure if you own a BMW, you can afford a $5 bit. This is a nothing burger. It’s just people jumping on the BMW hate, which if you were smart, there’s plenty of actual things they overcharge up the ass for. This isn’t one of them. You might as well complain about locking lug nuts as a whole because that’s really all this is.
It would go with the tool I bought just to loosen a single plumbing fixture.
It’s a special bit, that’s it.
More likely it’s a whole set of bits. Why do you think they’re doing this? Apple invented a new screw. Why do you think they did that? None of it is intended to slow down professional repair businesses, it’s to stop DIYers.
You might as well complain about locking lug nuts as a whole because that’s really all this is.
LOL locking lugnuts prevent theft. Do you think that’s what the purpose of this is?
You mean apples proprietary bit that comes with any cheap as fuck set of security bits? I have an electronics screwdriver set that cost me $10 and does ALL THE BITS, including Apples.
Locking lug nuts: you mean the thing most people with nice rims use? People who own things like a BMW? So instead of the one specific locking bit they now have this specific locking bit? So a 1:1 swap for one custom bit to another? Except locking lug nuts are individualized and need the very specific adapter for each one, where this one is generic and would work on ALL BMW locking bolts.
Also, you realize this is a standard bolt, right? As in, you can take it out and put a standard one in if it bothers you.
This is nothing but morons being outraged. It’s like people complaining about tax cuts for the rich as if you’re gonna be a billionaire someday. Your civic is gonna be just fine and for the people actually in this situation who already pay things like $300 for a replacement window switch, this $5 tool is meaningless.
You mean apples proprietary bit
One and only (AFAIK)
instead of the one specific locking bit they now have this specific locking bit?
Did you just completely ignore what I said about this being a security item?
The only moron here is the one who doesn’t read comments before replying to them. If you can’t tell me what you think the purpose of this bolt is, then don’t reply to me again.
locking lug nuts prevent theft
Yeah, I addressed that, can you not read? There’s a whole paragraph there. I think you might be a bit slow buddy. In fact, your only quote about security was mocking it. But now your pro security? Really I think you’re just a jackass 🤷♂️
I read the entire paragraph and at no time did you address your failed analogy that these are not for theft prevention. But thank you for acknowledging that you have no idea what they’re for. You’re being blocked now.
“specifically intended to prevent BMW drivers from fixing their own cars.”
Give me a break.
I hate to break it to people but every manufacturer has a lot of brand specific tools. You need a special socket for Toyota head bolts, 10 point sockets for Honda suspensions, a special multipoint socket for Audis, a special socket for Mercedes lug nuts and it’s good to have a 21.5mm for Fords. 5 point security torx are starting to pop up on GMs.
That’s just an example of a few sockets, the deeper you go into a car, the higher the possibility that you need a $400 special tool or kit for a specific manufacturer, or even specific year or engine.
Why do manufacturers do that, do you think? Why would car manufacturers design the vehicles such that they require proprietary tools? Surely they can just use commodity parts and fixings?
I don’t really know. I purposely picked the things I mentioned because they’re similar to the BMW bolt, but the tools required are cheap and simple for all of them.
Part of my point was that there are other, more complicated and more expensive tools that are brand specific too. I think a lot of it is really just the nature of the beast. Brands do thiings differently, so a special shaped tool to get into the nook and cranny of a certain car won’t work on a different brand that has different nooks and crannys. And you can substitute “brand” with “engine,” “model,” or even “year.”
Right, but the article suggests a potential motivation - adding friction to dissuade motorists from repairing and servicing their own vehicles - which seems very likely to me. I was wondering why you dismissed that claim.
I don’t see how it could be effective. The brand specific things I mentioned are almost identical and none of them stop people from repairing their car. The BMW design is simpler than the ones I mentioned. A flat screwdriver with a gap cut down the middle would work.
Sure, I agree that it wouldn’t pose an insurmountable barrier for people, but it absolutely does cause friction - someone might have taken a crack at fixing something themselves, seen that it needs some proprietary tool, and decided “meh, fuck it, i’ll take it to the dealer”.
I can’t think of any other motivation than that.
I also highly doubt this screw is made with intention to keep users out of repairing their cars. I guarantee they are dress ups for engine bay/ interior. Having the bmw logo along panel screws looks far more puff than a bunch of torx screws. Every car requires either special tools or special software to work on, NO exceptions in modern vehicles. You cannot truly clear error codes from a Chrysler without a subscription to their gateway and internet access. You can go in limp mode where there’s no service and ur 3k autel scanner won’t help you without wifi as it cannot connect to the gateway. I don’t give a crap about special fasteners that’s the name of the game, my gripes are what they do on the computer side of things to lock you out. Right to repair just means you have the right to pay dealer networks thousands a year for the privilege of accessing your own modules on ur car with your scanner. What a fucking racket.
Sure, they can afford a luxury foreign automobile, but one particular drill bit? We’re not made of money!
Doesn’t BMW already use a lot of proprietary screws?
If BMW truly wants to innovate, they should work on fixing their turn signals. They must always be in a state of disrepair, because I rarely see a BMW driver use them…
Apparently it’s by subscription only…
If you can afford a BMW in the first place, you can afford the blinker fluid subscription…
BMW turn signals are only decals.
BMW drivers use blinkers to signal other brands to clear the left lane of the Autobahn for them.
$1.49 on temu
deleted by creator
Has BMW *ever done anything for the consumer?
No.
BMWs are just pickups for assholes with office jobs.
Karl Benz invented the automobile
As in Mercedes-Benz? How is he related to BMW?
I’m an idiot and got my Bs mixed up
don’t worry b
And it’s been downhill every since
