- cross-posted to:
- me_irl@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- me_irl@lemmy.world
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ITT: People not knowing about Nietzsche Family Circus.
I prefer my, commas, to enhance the legibility, of the, sentence, rather than to simply act as interesting, accessories.
I don’t think Jeffy gets punctuation
into this; meat,
;:AM I FORGOTTEN?!
Ah, I thought she was calling her meat
Unnecessary commas make me read things in Christopher Walken’s voice
Isn’t this a line from true detective?
TWICE!
Dang, Bill Keane got dark in his later years
It happens to the best of us, we’re slowly dying all our lives and it’s the only certainty in existence; that we’ll all eventually perish.
Kind of a downer.
Only if one identifies exclusively with one’s body.
Which most people more or less do.
Well, I consider my being to consist of more than my physical body but the entity “I” will cease to exist when I die.
What’s the connection between your being and your “I” entity?
Souls exist, and reincarnation is real. Or more specifically, a soul exists. A soul. There’s just one. It’s just one soul bouncing back and forth across time and space, eventually looping back onto its own path after circling through every the life of every sentient being that is, was, or ever shall be. An infinite circle of consciousness spanning the entirety of physical existence.
My complete being, the “I” is an amalgamation of my physical presence and sense of existence. Much like a braindead body and a brain in a jar are separate things, but the sum of the parts are bigger than the components.
I expect this amalgamation to break up when I die, whereas my body will rot and the “I” will no longer exist (this is a certainty), my sense of existence might continue to exist.
Indeed. The same sense of existence you have now, even.
Except nobody is doing the yanking.
If souls aren’t real, it makes our existence even stranger. Like two people rawdog one time and now there’s this conscious sentient being with hopes and desires and depression. That needs food water and shelter for 80 years
Also why is our existence so dystopian, we have untold wonders available to us and nearly free food, but it’s like the constant ability to compare what we have with others makes us crazy. We’ve been granted nearly global telepathy and it makes us all go mad
If souls aren’t real, it makes our existence even stranger. Like two people rawdog one time and now there’s this conscious sentient being with hopes and desires and depression. That needs food water and shelter for 80 years
You know what i’ve been (jokingly) wondering about for a while now? Maybe souls aren’t real, maybe consciousness isn’t real, maybe it’s all a big hoax sold to us by Big Church to sell more salvation.
Excuse me I don’t have dreams
You can have some of mine. They were weird even before the psychoactive drugs. After… let’s just say I’m glad I don’t believe in dreams having any symbolic meaning beyond sometimes vaguely resembling something you once thought about. Brain poop, if you will.
I’m offering you my brain poop.
Of course souls aren’t real. What’s so strange about it? Zillions of bacteria are at this very moment also being brought into being as part of the great “matter computation” driven by the Sun. Also worms, botflies, politicians, you name it.
we have this very nice expression in german called “der Geist in der Materie” which roughly translates to “the spirit in the matter” which expresses the concept that even though some object is material, there is still a kind of spirit inside of it. It’s like the matter itself is alive and conscious. We can see this in animals. It’s a very interesting concept.
I think I found where OP got all those extra commas. Must have stolen them from this poor poster.
_ No offense. Just playing_
Whatever do you mean commas are an important part of sentences and they are the best way to separate phrases to prevent run on sentences my commas have not been stolen they are safely locked up in my grammatoreum vault that is guarded by a particularly unchill poodle named Feathers who patrols the grounds most diligently and often can been seen chasing off would-be punctuation bandits.
Hahaha phones. Thats all, move along
Speak for yourself
yanking my hog lmao
Antinatalism is cringe (and also fashy)
There’s various reasons for antinatalism IMO, and the two biggest ones are because people think they cannot (and never will be able to) afford children, and also because they recognize the suffering the children would go through.
Like, realistically, your children inherit a lot of your traits, and if you’re suffering in this world, what reason is there to believe that it will be different for your (hypothetical) children?
And also having children is vastly expensive. It costs $100K dollars upwards just to raise them to puberty, and that’s optimistic estimates assuming no future inflation. And then there is the whole uncertainty of the future labor market. So, would you rather spend that money to bring another suffering being into this world, or would you rather say “fuck it” and enjoy your own time on this planet instead?
I’m confused. Please bear with me here…
I’ve resonated with antinatalism in the past and hadn’t clicked on to the deeper resentment underneath it, but I can see how it’s cringe.
If only ever seen it as a personal choice however, so couldn’t see the fascist angle. Do people really use it as a guise for eugenics? That’s proper mental! (and probably racism, etc)
only ever seen it as a personal choice
Some people say that it is unethical to have children or imply, rather than personal choice, that it is the morally correct choice. For example: the image in this post which describes having children as great hubris.
If the personal choice is only based on finances, I wouldn’t really call it antinatalism. Antinatalism is based on resentment.I think the fascist angle comes from its proximity to ecofascism ie “we should kill people because humans are the problem”. I don’t see antinatalism as necessarily fascist, but it’s absolutely inspired by the same desperate misanthropic hopelessness that hangs over heads like poisonous clouds. Just a useless philosophy that cannot make the world any better and imagines doing so as impossible.
Thesis this is teasing it out for me.
I can see there’s an element of hubris or selfishness behind the idea of having children (I do wish it wasn’t so popular!), but even the moral stuff is still a stretch to project ones feelings onto another’s situation - although I can see that happens all the time, and I find it disgusting (ex-Christian, anything about projected beliefs sets me off…)
I’ve absolutely had that desperate misanthropic helplessness - wonderful words!! I’m working on dismantling the thinking that leads to poison clouds having raised it’s all my own creation (oops!), so thank you, you’ve helped me process my recent past quite rapidly!
Do people really use it as a guise for eugenics?
I mean, fascists will use anything that advances their agenda
Yeah, that’s fair. The bad faith actors will use any lever
Choosing not to reproduce because it’s unethical to force more humans to live as indentured slaves under capitalism on this dying hellworld… is basically the opposite of fascism?
That you also consider antinatalism cringe though makes me think you either just don’t understand what any of these words mean, or that you’re an Overton centrist who’s just one little push away from becoming/owning a trad wife and feeding your offspring into the meat grinder to make billionaires happy.
I’m an anarchist and a trans woman but ok
Antinatalism is ecofascist eugenicist bullshit
thank you
From one anarchist trans woman to another:
How do you figure you have the authority to force someone into existence? Like, for real. To me this feels like the most selfish act possible. I can’t see any reasons that would stand up to scrutiny to have children other than “cause I wanna”. And yes. It’s forcing them. It’s not “a gift”, since a gift can be declined.
I know several new dads who would be absolutely livid at the thought of someone calling them “selfish” for what they’re currently submitting themselves to XD
A lot of us had shitty parents and find it easy to transpose those traits onto all parents. But there at least as many parents out there for whom it’s absolutely the largest sacrifice they’ve made in their entire lives. It’s them pouring all of their collected love, knowledge, and material means onto someone else so that they don’t leave this Earth having only taken from it.
And if their kids grow up anything like me, they’ll be grateful for that choice and happy to be alive.
Ok but this kind of doesn’t answer my question… Also to the point of “don’t leave this Earth having only taken from it” yeah, it’s even worse, cause now there is a whole new person that will also take from the earth.
And if their kids grow up anything like me, they’ll be grateful for that choice and happy to be alive.
And if they don’t, they might not be. That’s kind of my point. A HUGE gamble like that is totally okay to take for yourself but not for someone else, without their consent.
I already didn’t like it, but you’ve talked me into liking it even less. Nevermind the angry arrow clickers.
You need to look some of those words up.
If you choose not to reproduce, that’s fine, regardless of your reasons. It’s no one’s business.
But explain to me how you pick and choose who can or “should” reproduce without sounding like a eugenics enthusiast
@I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world your comments don’t show up on the blahaj end, sorry I didn’t see them until now.
No one “should” reproduce. Until every child can be guaranteed a home, food, safety, and a genuine chance to succeed in the future
I can understand that argument a lot more than the ones that come across as very defeatist and nihilistic, thank you.
This is like having a tantrum about vegans because you think vegans want to stop you from eating animal products because they think it’s wrong.
Antinatalism is a personal philosophy, nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. I have chosen not to procreate because my experiences have brought me to the conclusion that it is unethical.
You can go ahead and make more people or torture animals if you want, I’m not part of that. Neither the vegans nor the antinatalists can actually stop you, combined we’re probably only a few million worldwide. We’re judging you for your choices, but that’s about it.
I do neither of those things. Scroll through my comment history and find something else to judge me for, bud.
Is it some kind of psychosis? Like how do you just decide words mean something completely different and flat out keep refusing to listen, learn and change your view after numerous people politely keep pointing out the definitions you’ve decided upon, are objectively wrong?
Good thing that has nothing to do with antinatalism then.
Again, if it’s your personal choice to not reproduce, that’s totally fine, and I won’t try to convince you otherwise.
As soon as you start telling other people though that producing offspring is inherently unethical and they’re a bad, selfish person for making that decision, you’re no different than the so-called “pro-life” groups, telling people that they’re morally flawed and the cause of all the problems in the world because you don’t agree with the choice they made about their reproductive system.
The options with antinatalism are:
- No one reproduces and humans go extinct.
- Someone has to make a decision regarding who can “ethically” reproduce to maintain some stable population level.
Option 1 is unacceptable to me because it means giving up, and at that point we might as well nuke everything to speed up the process of ending the suffering that is life. And if that’s the outlook you have, I genuinely feel bad for you.
Option 2 is unacceptable because — surprise surprise — that’s just eugenics dressed up as caring about the environment or something. And when you and your loved ones are part of groups that have historically been forcibly sterilized at best and sent to death camps at worst, you tend to have a negative opinion about any philosophy that ultimately labels some groups as unworthy of existing.
Option 1 is unacceptable to me because it means giving up, and at that point we might as well nuke everything to speed up the process of ending the suffering that is life. And if that’s the outlook you have, I genuinely feel bad for you.
The more extreme form of antinatalism, efilism, actually advocates for sterilizing the earth to prevent animal suffering as well.
You seem extremely confused.
Antinatalism has precisely nothing to do with preventing people from procreating.
Option 1 being “unacceptable” to you is scary und giving me the ick. What happens in your world when people don’t want kids anymore? Forced breeding programs?
But explain to me how you pick and choose who can or “should” reproduce without sounding like a eugenics enthusiast
Well, no one should. Phew, that was easy.
…if projected at others (I feel like that’s the missing qualifier from your statement)
K
- Emotionally-founded movement masquerading as ethically-founded
- Driven primarily by resentment
- Distinctly Malthusian
- Condemns a fundamental process of biological life
- Primarily advocates abandoning the world before improving it
- Adherents frequently direct their anger at mostly non-political actors
Yeah it’s disturbing that you’re getting so many downvotes simply for being bold in your stance here. I mean I do understand why… There are strong and often unexamined emotions at play here. But it’s still disturbing. Antinatalism isn’t eugenics but it sits right next to eugenics in a logical process. It’s positions on ecology and it’s emotional social resentment place it on a pipeline to fascism.
Is “antinatalism” some kind of organized movement or something? Because I think the reason that they’re getting downvotes is because it comes off as saying “your personal choice to not have kids makes you a eugenicist and a Nazi, kids are the best thing to ever happen to you in life and everybody wants them, even if they say they don’t.” It certainly came off that way to me, but I’ve never heard the term before. I just don’t want to bring another life into this hellhole of a country on this burning world that we continue to do nothing to fix.
@EldritchFeminity @infinitesunrise I’m not sure if it’s organized, but it does describe a specific school of thought that isn’t just “I don’t personally want to have kids.” Antinatalists generally believe that it’s unethical for anyone to reproduce. The core argument is usually that since you can’t consent to being born, you can’t ethically impose it on someone against their will. It tends to go hand-in-hand with misanthropic ideas such as that humans are destructive to the planet/fundamentally cruel or that life in general just sucks. Ultimately, the thesis is that humans should extinct ourselves. Given the current state of the world, it’s gained some traction amongst groups of people trapped deep in despair right now. (Which, let’s be real - there are a lot of on Lemmy)
Exactly. I don’t have ideological bases for my personal preferences, which I then promulgate to strangers online.
Have your heard of Cappucinism? A frothy espresso drink is the only kind of coffee to take with breakfast! I spend so much of my time telling others that I barely have time to wazz up the milk! Huaaagh I can’t stand Americanists, you bitter assholes are a crime against humanity. Might as well be intermittent fasters and skip the whole meal!
I get that hope is scarce these days, but hope is always a leap of faith. The point isn’t to make the jump, the point is to jump at all.
Thanks, this was useful - I hadnt unpacked this before
I actually meant to reply to the comment above you but I’m just as happy to reply to you! So I guess to add regarding what you asked about people using it as a guise for eugenics, I actually don’t think antinatalists are doing that, generally. Antinatalists aren’t villains, and I think they mostly mean well. They just have a lot of resentment, absent a fully matured leftist framework to guide those emotions into socially healthy advocacy. Which makes them sitting ducks for any actual villains looking for a demographic to coopt.
Antinatalists aren’t villains, and I think they mostly mean well. They just have a lot of resentment, absent a fully matured leftist framework to guide those emotions into socially healthy advocacy. Which makes them sitting ducks for any actual villains looking for a demographic to coopt.
Lmao, yes of course, the folks who’ve abandoned their egos and taken a moral stance not to procreate, they are the ones who are the sitting ducks here.
Clearly anyone who thinks differently from you just doesn’t have a mature leftist framework to guide their emotions.
And you’re so opinionated and sure of yourself about this too, almost like you enjoy making yourself out to be the educated authority on this. What a true sign of a fully matured leftist framework that is unable to be pandered to or manipulated.
Please, tell us more of your takes on things you don’t understand, it’s just so woke and liberal of you to be this smarmy about a minority political philosophy you’re not part of.
