Oh no, Trump, please. Please don’t convince Hungary to leave. Anyone but Hungary! They’re the economic and democratic backbone of the EU.
Austria, Hungary, Italy and Poland
There, saved you a click.
3/4 Fascist. What a coincidence.
All filled with either Russian or American assets, maybe except Poland to some extent. But even that is likely to change after the next elections.
If you assume every country is a US-style presidential autocracy, 4/4.
Maybe a sort of psuedo-Brexit approach would be best when it comes to Hungary? Specifically…
1: Hungary effectively leaves the EU in nearly all ways.
2: Hungarians still have free movement, so people can leave Hungary and seek a better life in the EU.
This allows the more libre people and youth of Hungary to leave, while the conservative elements instinctively shelter in place. Plus, Hungarians who go back, will relate their outsider lives to Hungarians who stayed. In effect, the disparity in lifestyle and wealth will become increasingly obvious with every Christmas gathering. Given time, the remaining Hungarians will ask themselves “Why don’t we live good lives?” and start looking at Orban with contempt for mismanaging their nation.
Toss in a provision to allow the EU to vote on whether to let Hungary resume being a full member every ten years, and maybe an optional special vote after a regime change. This gives a lot of flexibility to the EU.
Whether this kind of approach can work…🤷♂️
World’s complicated and annoyingly random.
Who needs enemies with allies like these?
You know what would be to make europe great again? It would be getting rid of the united snakes and it’s proxy in the middle east
I absolutely cannot approve insulting snakes. Or any other innocent animal for that matter.
We can’t use symbolism anymore? There are other context where snakes has positive symbolism
What a coincidence that the MAGA USA’s policy towards Europe is almost indistinguishable from Russia’s!
The American policy has been exactly this long before Trump. The literal main and pretty much only obstacle to a European army and a European Federation has been the USA, constantly using their leverage and economic/military power to block any such plans from progressing.
Why would US billionaires hand over control of their country to Russia? They can’t be that incompetent and elections are not free enough that it could happen against their will.
It’s not coincidence, but I doubt the Russian influence.
Because a) he’s a Russian asset (apparently) and b) they have incriminating evidence on him and probably a bunch of other billionaires. Also, if they could spend a few billion in return for control of pretty much they would, they’d be willing to pay for it.
a) he’s a Russian asset (apparently
Apparently. It must be part of Flooding the Zone. Everybody has an explanation that is useless because it hides the real motives. Why would the elite accept a known Russian asset? It’s a rumor since the 80ies.
incriminating evidence
Against all billionaires? As in the KGB could have won if they would have had it 10 years earlier? The US billionaires own the media. What could happen if something comes out?
if they could spend a few billion in return for control of pretty much they would, they’d be willing to pay for it.
True, but how could they outspend US billionaires?
You might have sense on your side, but it can be very difficult for a reasonable person to make sense of the influence Putin seems to have on Trump. The man is clinically disloyal, but he takes Russia’s side more often than not.
There could be compromat, but that alone would strongly arouse his ego defense mechanisms. The whole thing might be entirely predicated on flattery. It’s the most disappointing possibility, and we discount it at our peril.
it can be very difficult for a reasonable person to make sense of the influence Putin seems to have on Trump.
That’s the point. Flooding the Zone, to paralyze the voters. The political fabric is remade but people only watch and don’t know who is responsible or whom to support to regain influence. Putin is out of reach unless people are ready for WW3. So all thoughts end there.
I had hoped to see the Russian regime collapse by now. I hope it doesn’t come to that, war is the ultimate failure of imagination.
War is inevitable unless the US step down voluntarily. China is outpacing western innovation. If the US wants to remain the hegemon they have to break China soon.
Russia is a piece in that puzzle, nothing more.
They can’t be that incompetent
Have you seen these billionaires? They absolutely can. The myth of their competence is pure propaganda.
Also, they like corruption because it offers many opportunities for those with enough money to pay. And they like oppression of workers because it provides a ready pool of cheap labour to exploit.
They’ll be looking at Russia and liking what they see, because they don’t see themselves being the ones working for pennies and being sent to die in Ukraine. And they all think they’re the smartest guy in the world (“why else would I have so much money?”) so they don’t see themselves being fucked over by Putin either. For them Russia is the promise of doing whatever you want, taking advantage of whomever you want, and getting whatever you want.
Have you seen these billionaires
Only videos, but they don’t seem to be stupid.
They’ll be looking at Russia and liking what they see
Even if they do, why hand over the country? They control the US.
For them Russia is the promise of doing whatever you want, taking advantage of whomever you want, and getting whatever you want.
What can’t be done in the US?
Only videos, but they don’t seem to be stupid.
Elon Musk and Donald Trump have proven that intelligence, competence, and charisma are not important factors in someone becoming obscenely wealthy.
They are not representative. Most billionaires act differently.
Yes, most billionaires keep quiet. Doesn’t change the fact that just because they are billionaires that doesn’t mean they can’t also be complete idiots.
Some are, but without hard evidence I don’t believe that they knowingly have let a Russian asset come to power who hands over the US to Russia.
Other things are happening and Trump’s Russia connections are a distraction.
Billionaires dont care as long as number go up.
And we’re simping for FUCKING Russian interests‽
Lots of people are brainwashed by social media.
Such a shame that famous people are not jailed for spreading lies
It’s insane that these people are elected representatives of so many people.
I don’t think Poland would ever actually leave the EU. Every poll says that poles love being in it even if the far right complains a ton. As someone who lived in Poland between 2005 and 2020 the improvements from being in the EU are so noticeable it would be suicide for the country to actually leave.
Hungary leaving EU? Oh pleeeaaassse i can only get so wet!!
It wouldn’t be so bad short-term, since it’d stop Hungary from veto’ing everything. However, long-term, losing any EU members is terrible. Especially considering there are already plans to remove veto by moving to qualified majority voting.
No matter what, we need to stick together. Now more than ever. All EU member states are our friends and allies, despite some of them being problematic. The solution is helping the nations with their corrupt governments. Not abandoning them. That’s not unity.
hungary is the welfare state of the EU.
Hungary leaving the EU may not be the best outcome. I fear they would become like Belarus, a proxy for Russia’s hybrid warfare, for instance weaponizing migrants to cause havoc at the border, allow them to operate jammer and drone operation from their terrirory.
I guess the majority of eu citizens hate hungarians by now. what a douche country. i wonder what drives these small dick energy countries forward. look at serbia. same small dick energy like “oh we hate diversity. lets get butt fucked by russia” instead of growing their own balls.
so yeah, fuck the hungarians!
Not hungarians. The government of hungary
My only problem with Hungarians is that they keep re-electing Orban, and even then I understand that given his control of the Press over there, most who do it are just being daily brainwashed to do it.
That said, a Hungary Leave might just be the jolt that’s needed to change things there (and it would isolate the rest of us from their problems plus would seriously dampen the prospects of any Orban-similar far-right in the rest of Eastern Europe), though there is a risk for Hungarian that the place turns into a hard autocracy controlled by Russia like Belarus and thus can’t actually get back to Democracy for at least several decades.
Hungary’s elections are very very far from “free and fair”
Well, since I don’t know enough in that front, I didn’t mention it either way and hoped for somebody more familiar with it to comment!
That said, the “it will give Hungarians a jolt” theory still applies, tough in this case is for more “assertive” actions than merelly voting differently (which in a situation were elections aren’t “free and fair” would be their only option to stop autocracy, even inside the EU) which does have a greater risk of things just getting worse (or maybe not: theoretically the end of money from the EU and of easy access to the EU should push the Hungarian Elites which are “fine with a little autocracy as long as we keep making money” to turn against Orban).
that explains all the protests…not.
There are tons of protests.
What’s your beef here? Some personal vendetta against Hungarians? You missed out on cheap Lake side property around Balaton or something?
Hungary’s elections are very very far from “free and fair”
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IMO: the Americans are adversaries now.
The American government, absolutely. They’ve been pretty open about it.
Yep, because it worked out so well for the UK
Europe needs to rally together to survive this. Russia is beatable, but you need to activate.
I wonder what Europe meddling in American elections is going to look like
It sure as hell can’t hurt
Ahh my free healthcare and public transit. Don’t hurt me.
Yes, please.
We helped them with their fascist problem a while back, it’s only fair.
If it’s as inept as their defense strategy don’t expect much
You overestimate the independence of Europe. This is all flooding the zone while the US rebuild Europe anyway.
Given what it took to put that particular beast to sleep, a lot of leaders are nervous to wake it back up.
I agree something needs to be done, but the idea of a militant Europe again is a worrying thought.
Too many years being nanied by the US…
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Hey UK, how is brexit going?
It has taught a lot of Brits how good being in the EU was (by taking away the benefits). All the “advantages” have also evaporated like pixy dust.
It has also done the same for lot of people in the rest of the EU who before believed the same far-right populist fables about how great it would be to leave the EU, which is why the far-right in those countries doesn’t talk about that anymore.
I lived in a couple of countries in the EU and my impression was that Britain was the best candidate of all in the EU to fall for the whole “We would be better of outside the EU” because they were the ones who looked back to the years before entering the EU and mainly saw a great Great Britain (an image relentlessly beautified and pushed by local media right, which is why even now almost a century after it a “new British film coming out about how Britain pretty much singlehandedly won WWI” is still a regular event and news about international affairs in Britain tend to be either spinning Britain as having great influence in the World or “look at that tupid thing happening in that country, this would never happen in Old Blighty [as we’re superior to those foreigners]” news pieces) so it was easy for such Delusions Of National Greatness to be turned into Brexit by outside influences (namely, American - just look up who funded Cambridge Analitica to spread pro-Leave propaganda).
After the subsequent shitshow with the “most likely nation in the EU to fall for Alone We’re Stronger bollocks” none of the larger nations left in the EU (which are just mid-sized nations in World terms) have any illusions that leaving would make them better of (plus people there already had fewer delusions of greatness to begin with than Brits), whilst the smaller nations never had any fond memories of time before the EU when they were little more than kicking balls for the bigger nations, to begin with.
All this to say that the country were an EU exit was most easy to leverage by foreign interests has already had that happen and the result stands as an example that further deters the idea of leaving in the few EU countries were the idea that “we were stronger alone” ever had more than a handful of believers.
That racks with what it looks like from here. It was also a perfect storm of events to cause it. The old wanted the glory of the empire back. The young were lashing out at the PM for unrelated reasons. Enough of the middle aged brought into Boris’ lies.
That combined with leave having an excellent campaign, while remain were lackluster to non-existent. Lastly, enough remain voters couldn’t comprehend enough people being stupid enough for it to matter, and so didn’t bother voting.
The rich then latched onto it, and ran away with it. It let them both firesale the UK economy, and dodge some embarrassing tax rules Europe was bringing in.
I’m glad there has been some benefits to it. Even if they are just “look at what happened to those idiots, don’t do that!”
My theory is that the Remain campaign was so weak because, after decades of both the traditional Tories and New Labour blaming the EU for anything bad that happened in Britain and for unpopular measures (most notably measures which they themselves introduced and pushed for at the EU level), actually admitting the good things of the EU would make obvious they previous lies and deceit, so instead they just restricted themselves in that campaign to only these things which wouldn’t contradict their previous words, at that was pretty much just “staying in the EU is good for Britain, trust us”, a weak message at a time when (not least due to the 2008 Crash and the subsequent choice for “Money for Bankers, Austerity for the rest”) the trust in mainstream British politicians was already pretty low.
Crap. Absolute crap.
And we’re down in growth by 6% to 8% according to economists.
this has putins stink all over it, if its not obvious already.
