- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- hackernews@lemmy.bestiver.se
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- hackernews@lemmy.bestiver.se
Last year the U.S. experienced something that hasn’t definitively occurred since the Great Depression: More people moved out than moved in. The Trump administration has hailed the exodus—negative net migration—as the fulfillment of its promise to ramp up deportations and restrict new visas. Beneath the stormy optics of that immigration crackdown, however, lies a less-noticed reversal: America’s own citizens are leaving in record numbers, replanting themselves and their families in lands they find more affordable and safe.
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Rich muricans are leaving the US, most can barely leave the state.
MASSIVE EXODUS!
single digit change in migration patterns
It’s pure hysterical clickbait. The far more newsworthy headline would be about people declining to immigrate to the US, as the Feds add more and more foreign nations to its shit list. Very obvious that Trump (by way of Steven Miller) wants the US to be Whites Only.
But they idea that people are leaving in droves requires you to believe that’s a viable option for anyone.
Why would the rich leave? Don’t they benefit from Trumps policies like tax breaks and stuff? Or do you just mean the moderately ‘normal’ rich people with ‘only’ 6-figure incomes?
Why would the rich leave?
Because they can afford to escape the bedlam. Nobody wants to be in Minneapolis right now. Nevermind LA, Portland, or Charlotte.
If you’ve got enough money to put up in a hotel for a month or friendly relatives in another state to crash with, it sounds far preferable to dealing with ICE agents clogging your streets and ramming your car. Doubly so if you’re living in the US on a temporary or revocable permit. Who is holding a Student Visa or Green Card that feels safe in any of these cities right now? They’re snatching neuroscience students out of Columbia University student dorms, ffs.
The super-rich are right at home, yeah.
Yeah, this isn’t cheap at all. It’s either a huge chunk of money up front or you have to uproot and move your family only taking what you can afford to the next country, a huge upheaval, with probably no support network at all where you move to. Ans that’s just residency, you’re not a citizen until you’ve put in years and meet whatever citizenship requirements.
A recent bill in Canada restored Canadian citizenship to thousands of people living abroad. I’m helping my friend move to Canada and giving her a place to live after she claims her citizenship. After she stays here three years, all her children get the same opportunity to claim citizenship. Am I operating an Underground Railroad?!
I feel people tend to forget that Canada almost voted in a Trump clone.
Ontario is governed by a Trump clone, as is Alberta.
Like, things can be bad in different ways. It’s not meaningful to describe every corrupt politician as a Trump clone, Trump didn’t invent sucking, and his form of suck is pretty unique.
Oh, we’ve commonly elected people just as evil as Trump. So have the Americans. Just not as stupid. Meanwhile, we threw away our pretense of “rule of law” at the Toronto G20 in 2010 just so Harper could impress China, and no following government ever did a damn thing about it.
But if you’re talking about the last election, it was not even close, there was no “almost” about it.
Doug Ford is far dumber than Trump.
I don’t think he’s low-IQ-dumb at all. I think he’s the shrewdest and most effective political manipulator Ontario has seen in my entire politically aware life. I think he has certain pathological drives and values that cause him to do things that any decent and informed person would find entirely contrary to the public good, but I don’t think he does any of them because he doesn’t know better.
Is that a “fuck trumpism with blood as the lube” “no almost” or an “all aboard the fascism-train” “no almost”? (I’m still ignorant on CN politics)
There was no Trump-like candidate that had a chance in hell in the last Federal election. It was a historic loss for the conservatives.
Trump saying that he was going to take Canada over probably did Canada a favor. It’s hard to say the US is going in the right direction. with a far right, autocrat in power. Your conservatives can’t emulate that then.
On the other hand, a Prime Minister with majority confidence has essentially unchecked power and can author and then pass any legislation she wants. The Canadian Prime Minister’s office is far more powerful than the American President’s office and we are perfectly able to dip in and out of tyranny as fashion dictates.
I mean I would if my support system didn’t have serious roots here.
If I was single you bet I would.
But being married with children it’s a lot harder to do that.
I totally get that, but we are married with a child and living very far away from any traditional support system (in a different country than either of our families). It’s certainly tough, especially missing out on the free child care that everyone around us seems to be enjoying, but honestly it’s not that bad, and even has some of its own benefits.
I agree. I’m in the same boat. I would make the point though that if you emigrate somewhere else, you’re going to have to leave behind a lot of comfort. That includes your support systems. Without wads of cash you will have to endure living in conditions you don’t want to. You will have to struggle more than you think is reasonable.
We are just not uncomfortable enough yet to take that leap.
I actually left the US because I have kids - I didn’t want them growing up there, or with the trouble we saw coming years ago.
They’re fleeing
Wish I could leave. This is going to get bad …
Does this number reflect only people who left by choice, or does it also include those who have been deported? The composition of this group would be interesting to see.
Trump has deported fewer people than Biden (I think? Definitely fewer than Obama) so, even if it did include people being deported, it still wouldn’t change the takeaway as far as I can see: Americans are willingly getting the fuck out in record numbers.
Unless you’re focusing on the “all the way back to the Great Depression” part more than recent history.
Also mandatory “fuck Donald Trump” disclaimer, my point isn’t that he’s better than Biden or Obama. If anything my point is that they’re all the same where it counts.
Trump has deported fewer people than Biden
I don’t think we know those numbers, and may never know. He’s disappearing people to other countries without tracking them. Why do you think this is true?
Trump hides the numbers because they’re short of his stated goal of 1 million deportations per year or whatever. Part of the reason he’s deporting fewer people, despite plainly more aggressive / unhinged tactics, is because fewer people are coming into the US because both of them made it more of a shithole. Why do you think he wouldn’t put his name on something “huge” and “bigger than Biden” if he could?
You got to have a way to do it though. You either have to have a job already lined up or you have to be under 30 so you could work some crappy job for 2 years or you have to be independently wealthy. The average Joe working at the Ford factory isn’t going to be going anywhere anytime soon.
The average Joe working at the Ford factory
That isn’t the average Joe though, not by a long shot.
The average is the average Joan working as a cashier.
Why should I leave? They’re the ones who suck
Same reason conservatives don’t want conservative women.
They don’t want something that fits their interests and opinions.
They want to beat and conquer something that thinks differently from them, and mold them into something that is subservient to their interest and opinions.
there’s at least 200 other countries that are at least as shitty as christo-fascists wish this one were. WHY CANT THEY MOVE.
Because those countries don’t have football and Hooters.
I think you’re being extremely generous to America here. Not to mention there’s not 200 other countries in the world.
If ı would get a job offer with 100k$ ,I would still not consider on USA
100k isn’t that much money over here.
what is the minimum threshold ?
Probably 250k per year for a lower middle class lifestyle
100k USD is barely anything in a big city.
what is the minimum threshold ? assume florida
Michael Green, a really big Wallstreet portfolio manager, says that 140,000 might be the new poverty line. So, that might be a pretty good guess?
Thanks to Elon, Bill, Mark like bastard oligarchs.
I would go if anyone wanted me, but I’m not rich enough or smart enough, so I’ll have to take my chances with the MAGAs. Looks like being a Revolutionary is in my future.
not rich enough or smart enough
That’s most humans, just strive to learn the local language and culture and you’ll be fine.
You make it sound easy, but most countries are going to refuse American political refugees unless they have something substantial to contribute. Why should they allow all these refugees to overwhelm their health care system, housing, etc.?
We’re kicking people out of America for those same reasons, why would we think it will be any different for us in other countries?
American political refugees
I’m not sure they qualify yet?.. Maybe, but calling them refugees… weird timeline.
Anyway a few countries have digital nomad visas, so there’s that.What else would you call people who are escaping an abusive government to avoid impending danger?
Americans have this deep-seated pride that leads them to believe that “it could never happen here,” but I have news for us all, it’s already happening, it getting worse every day, and it’s going to get far worse than our worst imaginations, if we don’t do something serious to stop it.
I have a degree in history, I know EXACTLY where we are headed, and just being American is not going to protect or save us.
I don’t have a degree in history, I know EXACTLY where you are headed.
I get it, it seems pretty obvious, but MAGA has spent years convincing many people that only good can happen, and a lot of them still buy it.
My husband and I are moving to Mérida, Yucatán, México in April. We don’t feel safe in Los Angeles anymore. And despite all the stuff going on in Mexico, Mérida is one of the safest cities in all the Americas.
I’m in the PV area. Trust me “all the stuff going on in Mexico” was a brief temper tantrum that lasted a few hours and some cars were burned after the head guy was taken out. Despite what English media wants to tell you, Mexico is safer today than it was before the events of Sunday.
Thanks for sharing, and that’s good to hear. My husband was saying stuff was being blown out of proportion on US news outlets, too.
Beautiful place to nice to tbh, what would be your monthly total expenses be moving to Mexico vs America?
I think comparing those relatively their respective median wages makes the more sense
beyond that, mksg monthly expenses I see don’t ammortize the costs of buying stuff like phones and other consuemer eletronics and/or appliances which are unfortanely a necessity that one day will to be replaced
You don’t need to buy new phones or computers as long as they’re GSM phones. You might need new power supplies, or more probably just a plug adapter. You will need to replace any appliances that run on AC if the frequency is different (50 vs 60 cycles/sec). But major appliances are generally already in an apartment or house (depending on the custom in the country you’re moving to), which leaves things like toasters and microwaves which aren’t exorbitantly expensive.
Incidentally, mobile phone service fees are much lower than in the UK. In England, I pay the equivalent of USD $11/mo for unlimited texts and voice calls and 5 GB of mobile data. Coverage and call quality are better too. ISP charges are also lower and connection speeds are good, as long as you avoid the big providers, which are evil and have poor quality of service.
When doing international moves, which I’ve done several times in my life, a good starting principle is YAGNI: Ya Ain’t Gonna Need It. Bring irreplaceable personal items, clothes, maybe kitchenware. Big furniture, cars, etc: forget about those. Our first move filled up a container. Subsequent moves were increasingly small palletized LCL (less-than-container-load) in size.
The big hurdles aren’t moving stuff around. They’re getting residency, setting up bank accounts and finding decent work. I initially took a slightly less senior position, but quickly climbed the ladder to where I was before. This, despite being quite old for my line of work. In previous international moves, I worked for multinationals which handled immigration matters and moving, though it was up to me to get residency once I was there long enough.
No borders but damn, you have to support your local antifa if you have left your fellows alone
Where would I go if I migrated away? Most of the world is falling into authoritarianism as the child protection laws and the attempts to effectively ban OpenPGP encryption have proven. Not only that, most of us Americans only know English and a bit of Spanish (if even that).
So, even if I moved away and abandoned my friends and family to face the fascist wolves without me, then I’d only be delaying the inevitable. I’d only encourage you to move away if you’re trans, but otherwise we must hold the line here no matter how tempting it is to move away from it.
Most of the world? No. You just need to do more research. But yes, moving abroad is hard and offersno guarantees.
“Most of the world” was a little hyperbolic admittedly
Not really.
Countries like New Zealand are absolutely falling over themselves to bring in trades and medical professionals. I nearly replanted myself there.
I advise anyone thinking about it to do your research on why that is. Sure if your only other option is the US, but the tourism ads are not the same as living in NZ. Record numbers of kiwis are leaving there too.
I have an ex co-worker that moved there a few years ago. I did a few on and off months of research. It’s isolated. You’re not getting concerts or going to amusement parks. Housing is expensive. Pay is marginal when you put it up against housing. Kids go through school and move to Australia or further for more opportunities. There’s a windy season that’s pretty insane if you’re on the windward side. The ozone hole affects them, summers can be brutal even when it’s not all that hot. Population is not diverse. It’s markedly low stress. English speaking, schools are good, people are generally friendly. Lots of walking to places, food is seasonal, cheap and good quality. There are lots of good views and nature spaces.
I’m living in NZ temporarily (a few years) with wife and kids, and I would agree on most parts. Housing, energy/petrol, and groceries can get expensive especially when things are out of season. Medical staff pay is low and it can be the same sucky job sometimes, but it’s in a beautiful country with a better work/life balance. We’ve found it’s quite family friendly with parks, playgrounds and walking tracks - and we don’t get dirty looks if bringing kids to a nicer restaurant. Also it’s easy to do a day trip to some beach or go for a walk.
We live in an Auckland suburb, but the city has some cool venues that bring in NZ and international bands. As a metal guy, I feel likes there’s always something to go to.
Americans are immigrating to other countries, they just like to call themselves X-Pats® because they think immigrant is a dirty word
Many said people are moving to avoid this type of narrow minded perspective from others in the US… Educated folks know anti-immigration is a tactic of emotional control by the ruling class.
I’m going to be a pedant and say they are emigrating to other countries.
E.g. Fewer people are immigrating to the US as it speed runs fascism. Many Americans, however, are emigrating to other countries.
Emigrate is to leave ones country to live in another, immigrate is to come to a country to live.
Yes that exactly how those 2 words work, they are emigrating from the USA and immigrating to other countries, but they will get offended by that
And yapping on twitter complaining about the locals and missing their life back home. #TakeMeBack
No, no! They are “replanting themselves and their families”.
deleted by creator
Man how you guys leaving? I’d love to leave
Many Americans are, ironically, moving to Mexico.
And often (but of course not always) bringing gentrification and white supremacy bullshit with them.
You must be kidding.
American “Digital Nomads” Swarm Mexico City, Angering Locals | The Daily Show
emigrated to Spain in 23, took a remote job and was able to finangle a visa through their DNV
I think my plan B if I get laid off is to cash out everything and flee. Not too sure where, but I don’t have a lot of hope with the current administration or job market.
