The arrest of a senior military figure who allegedly leaked footage purporting to show Palestinian prisoners being abused has shocked Israel and ignited a major political row.
While I agree they are unlikely to get a fair trial
They don’t deserve fairness
If this wasn’t leaked, they would go un-judged, which is the opposite end of that sliding scale they are complaining about by being outed as torturers.
I do wonder how much of it was “following orders” and how much was pure bloodlust. Neither excuses this, but the former would be indicative of bigger evil up the chain of command.
A very reasonable and sensible perspective, but what if that’s still not going to be a fair trial either? We all have pretty strong opinions about torture, so I think we may need to go the extra mile in this case. If no unbiased jury can be found anywhere on planet Earth, then we’ll have to send them to Mars for a fair trial instead. It doesn’t even have to be elaborate, we can use the rules of the good old fashioned “trial by ordeal”. If you can survive on Mars, that demonstrates you were innocent all along and you can come right back home. Otherwise this is going to get dragged out for years and years while they dig up even more evidence and who knows what else may get discovered. This is really the best option for everyone. All aboard to Mars.
A “fair trial” is not about having a jury or judge from Planet Neutral.
Is it about having a defence and a jury or judge who weigh the evidence of the prosecution against the counter-evidence of the defence properly, to come to a conclusion.
The concept that a soldier is able to disobey an illegal order is flawed. The first thing that happens to them is being thrown in jail awaiting court martial. It’s then on them to prove the order illegal be ause the presumption is that it was legal. It becomes one person against the whole military apparatus.
The penalty if found guilty of refusing to obey orders? At minimum (in the US) a dishonorable discharge. At most a room on death row.
I still think soldier should refuse illegal orders, but the system is setup so they don’t.
They’re not that dissimilar, both indoctrinate exceptionalism and fascism into their kids from an early age, the difference being that usonians go overseas to liberate other people of their oil, whereas israelis have war zones (they create) geographically close, so a bit of incentive is required for them to join the meat grinder. Not much though.
While I agree they are unlikely to get a fair trial
I do wonder how much of it was “following orders” and how much was pure bloodlust. Neither excuses this, but the former would be indicative of bigger evil up the chain of command.
Everyone deserves a fair trial. If Israel cannot provide one then perhaps The Hague or Palestine can assist them in getting a fair trial.
A very reasonable and sensible perspective, but what if that’s still not going to be a fair trial either? We all have pretty strong opinions about torture, so I think we may need to go the extra mile in this case. If no unbiased jury can be found anywhere on planet Earth, then we’ll have to send them to Mars for a fair trial instead. It doesn’t even have to be elaborate, we can use the rules of the good old fashioned “trial by ordeal”. If you can survive on Mars, that demonstrates you were innocent all along and you can come right back home. Otherwise this is going to get dragged out for years and years while they dig up even more evidence and who knows what else may get discovered. This is really the best option for everyone. All aboard to Mars.
A “fair trial” is not about having a jury or judge from Planet Neutral.
Is it about having a defence and a jury or judge who weigh the evidence of the prosecution against the counter-evidence of the defence properly, to come to a conclusion.
Now what does that remind of…
Every military ever.
The concept that a soldier is able to disobey an illegal order is flawed. The first thing that happens to them is being thrown in jail awaiting court martial. It’s then on them to prove the order illegal be ause the presumption is that it was legal. It becomes one person against the whole military apparatus.
The penalty if found guilty of refusing to obey orders? At minimum (in the US) a dishonorable discharge. At most a room on death row.
I still think soldier should refuse illegal orders, but the system is setup so they don’t.
The US has no draft, they choose to join, so they can go fuck themselves.
Assassins paid with taxpayer money, that’s all they are.
Israel does. Compulsory service.
They’re not that dissimilar, both indoctrinate exceptionalism and fascism into their kids from an early age, the difference being that usonians go overseas to liberate other people of their oil, whereas israelis have war zones (they create) geographically close, so a bit of incentive is required for them to join the meat grinder. Not much though.
You always have a choice.