The arrest of a senior military figure who allegedly leaked footage purporting to show Palestinian prisoners being abused has shocked Israel and ignited a major political row.

Rule of law is obviously sympathetic to Hamas.

  • Clot@lemmy.zipEnglish
    1·
    5 days ago

    I dont think it has shocked israel. And even if it has, I am sure not for torture but for leaking.

  • Kyden Fumofly@lemmy.worldEnglish
    2·
    6 days ago

    The torture video shaking Israel to its core because it leaked not because of the event happening. The leak is perceived as treason by the majority of Israel and they are fine with the tortures…

  • President Camacho@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    3·
    7 days ago

    *The soldiers accused of carrying out the attack gave a press conference outside the Supreme Court on Sunday, wearing black balaclavas to avoid identification.

    The group said they could not receive a fair trial because of the leaked video, and were victims of an unfair “drumhead court-martial”.*

    The video of us doing horrendous shit is extremely hurtful to our defense!

    • plz1@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1·
      7 days ago

      While I agree they are unlikely to get a fair trial

      1. They don’t deserve fairness
      2. If this wasn’t leaked, they would go un-judged, which is the opposite end of that sliding scale they are complaining about by being outed as torturers.

      I do wonder how much of it was “following orders” and how much was pure bloodlust. Neither excuses this, but the former would be indicative of bigger evil up the chain of command.

      • QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        3·
        7 days ago

        Everyone deserves a fair trial. If Israel cannot provide one then perhaps The Hague or Palestine can assist them in getting a fair trial.

        • cecilkorik@lemmy.caEnglish
          1·
          6 days ago

          A very reasonable and sensible perspective, but what if that’s still not going to be a fair trial either? We all have pretty strong opinions about torture, so I think we may need to go the extra mile in this case. If no unbiased jury can be found anywhere on planet Earth, then we’ll have to send them to Mars for a fair trial instead. It doesn’t even have to be elaborate, we can use the rules of the good old fashioned “trial by ordeal”. If you can survive on Mars, that demonstrates you were innocent all along and you can come right back home. Otherwise this is going to get dragged out for years and years while they dig up even more evidence and who knows what else may get discovered. This is really the best option for everyone. All aboard to Mars.

          • kossa@feddit.orgEnglish
            1·
            6 days ago

            A “fair trial” is not about having a jury or judge from Planet Neutral.

            Is it about having a defence and a jury or judge who weigh the evidence of the prosecution against the counter-evidence of the defence properly, to come to a conclusion.

        • wewbull@feddit.ukEnglish
          1·
          7 days ago

          Every military ever.

          The concept that a soldier is able to disobey an illegal order is flawed. The first thing that happens to them is being thrown in jail awaiting court martial. It’s then on them to prove the order illegal be ause the presumption is that it was legal. It becomes one person against the whole military apparatus.

          The penalty if found guilty of refusing to obey orders? At minimum (in the US) a dishonorable discharge. At most a room on death row.

          I still think soldier should refuse illegal orders, but the system is setup so they don’t.

          • 0x0@lemmy.zipEnglish
            0·
            6 days ago

            The US has no draft, they choose to join, so they can go fuck themselves.
            Assassins paid with taxpayer money, that’s all they are.

              • 0x0@lemmy.zipEnglish
                1·
                4 days ago

                They’re not that dissimilar, both indoctrinate exceptionalism and fascism into their kids from an early age, the difference being that usonians go overseas to liberate other people of their oil, whereas israelis have war zones (they create) geographically close, so a bit of incentive is required for them to join the meat grinder. Not much though.

  • Jo Miran@lemmy.mlEnglish
    2·
    7 days ago

    Any possible relevant comment I want to make violates site policy. They are the 21st century Nazis.

    • AngryCommieKender@lemmy.worldEnglish
      0·
      6 days ago

      That’s rather impressive for Lemmy. I’ve seen open calls for violent actions stick around and not get banned on this platform. Might have been a different instance than .world though.

      • ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.orgEnglish
        1·
        6 days ago

        I mean, lemmy.world has to follow German law and reminder: saying “Palestinian people suffer” not followed by “…because of Hamas” is legally problematic there. Still, it’s easy to misjudge one’s relative freedom of speech: I am (un)lucky to live in a country with a higher rating than the US and it doesn’t stop populists from whining when people’s rights groups challenge their false and/or racist posters.

    • QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      01·
      7 days ago

      The Nazis were German fascists who thought the Jewish population was inhibiting their destiny of creating a master race. Israel does not maintain any of these views so while they are Israeli fascists they are not Nazis.

      • verdi@feddit.orgEnglish
        1·
        6 days ago

        The Nazis Zionists were German Israeli fascists who thought the Jewish Palestinian population was inhibiting their destiny of creating a master race. Israel does not maintain any of was founded based on these views so while they are Israeli fascists they are not also neoNazis.

          • Gerudo@lemmy.zipEnglish
            1·
            6 days ago

            They use terms like sub-human.

            I’ve heard that term used by another group before…

          • Evkob (they/them)@lemmy.caEnglish
            1·
            6 days ago

            It’s not Nazi unless it’s from the Rhine basin area, otherwise it’s just sparkling genocide.

            This is what you’re arguing about. The intent in calling them Nazis isn’t to insinuate they’re members of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei and no one would assume that’s the intent.

            “Nazi” is common parlance as a shorthand for genocidal fascists because the Nazis are by far the most well-known genocidal fascists.

            The meaningless semantic argument you’re putting forth is either a useless distraction, or you’re simply purposefully arguing in bad faith to derail the conversation.

            • QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              01·
              6 days ago

              No that claim is similarly ignorant. The Nazis are/were a specific party with a specific ideology that Israel is not perpetuating. It is factually incorrect to call them Nazis. This would be akin to labelling AOC a “communist”. AOC is not a communist nor is Israel a Nazi state.

              This is of course ignoring the inherent question of racism that is always baked in to comparing the historic victims of Nazi racism to Nazis themselves.

              You can hate Israel without making comparisons to the Nazis.

        • QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          0·
          7 days ago

          Nah, it’s messed up to make direct comparisons between Nazis and Jewish people, Roma people or any other ethnicity that was targeted for elimination by Nazis.

          It isn’t pedantry as much as it is anti-racism.

          • pelespirit@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            0·
            6 days ago

            A person bullied can still be a bully. A person that was horrifically abused can still be an abuser.

            The Israelis in power are now ethnic cleansing Palestinians. Being Jewish or not doesn’t even factor into the equation.

            • QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              01·
              6 days ago

              Ok buddy but nothing you write changes what “Nazi” means. Nazis are German fascists. Israeli fascists are not German fascists so they cannot be Nazis.

              • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
                0·
                6 days ago

                Do you think maybe that the person who originally made that comment knows this? Everyone else knew what they were saying, and I’m pretty sure you did too.

                • QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
                  01·
                  6 days ago

                  I think the dipshit who made this claim is not any more intelligent or informed than the dipshits that agree with it. The only real question at hand is how much of this comparison is just racism masking itself as something based around morality.

  • WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.worldEnglish
    2·
    7 days ago

    The most fucked up part about this story is that hundreds of Israeli fascists literally stormed the military base the perpetrators were being imprisoned — committing domestic terrorism — in defence of the war criminals, demanding their release.

    Israel is a fascist state because its founders spent the last century propagandising its citizens and the entire Jewish diaspora. It’s not a surprise the Israeli majority think Palestinians are sub-human and their extermination is justified; that will not change for generations, and only after Israel is globally shunned, militarily neutered, required to return to its original borders, and pay to rebuild all of Palestines infrastructure.

  • Cyberflunk@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1·
    6 days ago

    disgusting… do they think they can match the usa for atrocities, we got that shit on lock. amateurs.

    omfg i hate this world

  • Naevermix@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1·
    6 days ago

    This is just nation level virtue signaling, the Israelis do not give a single shit about the Palestinians.

    And it’s just going to get worse. The Israelis are going to eradicate the Gazans and then a few years later they’re going to be crying over how guilty they feel. Not guilty enough to repatriate the Palestinians mind you, it will instead be about helping the Palestinians where they’re now refugees. Israel is liberal Elmo, the state.

  • ameancow@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1·
    6 days ago

    I’ve let myself watch just one short video of atrocities committed by Israel in the last couple years and I still think about it and choke up thinking about it daily. Just one of many like it.

    I am not the strongest person emotionally despite a really tough exterior, I have seen a lot of death and been through some shit. So to think about what’s been happening there all day, every day, to families and children, it’s too much to process. I have to advocate in a completely detached frame or I will be unable to form a cognitive thought.

    • samus12345@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      0·
      6 days ago

      The level of suffering people all over the world go through on a daily basis in unimaginable and we’re not capable of caring about it in depth and still functioning. Best you can do is be aware it exists and keep a wall up, only lowering it on occasions where you might be able to help. The fact that you care at all shows you’re not a MAGA monster.

      • ameancow@lemmy.worldEnglish
        1·
        6 days ago

        The fact that you care at all shows you’re not a MAGA monster.

        It’s wild because I was raised conservative and was one until I left the family compound (let that one sink in) and it was reading, learning and experiencing human life that turned me around pretty fast. I saw science being ignored, I saw heartlessness, I saw them fabricate justification to start a war, and one particular night I saw FOX news play a live feed of a US humvee entering Baghdad shred a civilian truck to pieces with a grenade launcher for no reason, and they were playing patriotic music and had American flags all over the graphics and I got really sick and never watched FOX news again.

  • TheMinister@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    1·
    6 days ago

    “Showing video of our actions is blood libel”

    Why does this type of bald faced deflection still work enough that they can keep doing it

  • unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
    1·
    7 days ago

    Tomer-Yerushalmi appeared to be a model servant of the state. Only the second woman to rise to the position, in 2021, she was appointed chief military advocate – effectively the IDF’s top lawyer.

    She was shaping up to be such a good little war criminal, but she just had go and develop a moral compass…

    The country was also still in the grip of profound shock and, for many citizens, fury at the October 7 massacre, with extremely limited concern for the treatment of detained Palestinians.

    Such a way with words. “extremely limited concern for the treatment of detained Palestinians” is a very pretty way to say “thirsting for the blood of innocent civilians”

    • lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.comEnglish
      1·
      6 days ago

      but she just had go and develop a moral compass

      It’s not so straightforward.

      Traditionally Israel’s government and military have considered the existence of an independent judiciary a crucial barrier to international legal tribunals investigating Israel for alleged abuses against Palestinians.

      Where there is a robust national legal system willing and able to investigate and prosecute crimes, international courts are less likely to have jurisdiction to intervene.

      “Don’t they understand we had no choice? That the only way to address the wave of international legal proceedings is by proving we can investigate ourselves?” the investigative reporter Ronen Bergman quoted the advocate general telling colleagues six weeks ago, in a report for Yedioth Ahronoth newspaper.

      In recent decades many Israelis have seen the role of the military advocate general “as protecting soldiers from prosecution abroad”, said Prof Yagil Levy, head of the Institute for the Study of Civil-Military Relations at Israel’s Open University.

      “In other words, the law is not upheld as a value in itself, but as a defence against international tribunals.”

      Her office exists (to self-police just enough?) to avert international prosecution.

    • SulaymanF@lemmy.worldEnglish
      0·
      6 days ago

      Shaken that the world is seeing it and judging them, not that it happened.

      Don’t forget that IDF soldiers executed Gazan ambulance workers after tying them up and hid the bodies and then denied the whole thing