The list is genuinely stupid and lacks any nuance. See my other comments in this thread but this is sort of thing is where people who are anti-AI are shooting themselves in the foot and making the general public write off any genuine criticism as ridiculous.
Most of those projects allow AI to be used in the dev process and that’s it. That list includes projects that just document that things like AI line completion and similar can be used but code is still reviewed by at least one skilled human maintainer
The list combines those projects in with projects that are entirely AI written (vibe coded in the actual original sense) which just muddies the water on what’s actually problematic and not
just another year bro, trust me just another year and ai will do everything! yes i know i said this last year and the year before but this time it’s for real bro!
unless the ai companies can magically solve the poor code quality, the unethical training data, the environmental impacts, the deskilling of developers, and the strong dependency on themselves for your coding, all this in a year, allow me to doubt you.
I mean no I don’t believe they’ll do everything but compared to last year AI coding has made leaps and its kind of dumb to imagine technology will not continue to do so.
1 year ago vibe coding was not good enough to make it into code bases.
unless the ai companies can magically solve the poor code quality, the unethical training data, the environmental impacts, the deskilling of developers, and the strong dependency on themselves for your coding, all this in a year, allow me to doubt you.
Im not some full on AI stan, so i share the same concerns you do on ethics and environmental impact. However I dont see how either of those matter in relation to code quality.
Code quality will is basically already good enough to be used mainstream, so I don’t know how you expect it to get worse. But sure feel free to revisit this in a year.
I mean no I don’t believe they’ll do everything but compared to last year AI coding has made leaps and its kind of dumb to imagine technology will not continue to do so.
People have been consistently saying this for over a year at this point and it’s still the same garbage results as always. Just look at the recent Meta and Amazon issues with it producing nonsense and people just taking it at face value for some reason.
The only thing it’s gotten better at is making people rely on it.
Sadness and dread is a perfect description. As I started reading I was building a mental list of things to stop using - I didn’t get very far before I gave up. So many projects I’ve held up in high regard.
Sadness, dread and defeat.
Edit to add - I want to be clear that I’m not judging the developers of these projects. If they’re being overwhelmed with AI generated PRs, they’re being forced to use these tools in their “real jobs” and it spills over, or they just feel that this is the way things are going or whatever reason - they’ve got to do what they’ve got to do to survive. My sadness, dread and defeat comes from the state of the world and this is just the symptom that’s currently front of mind.
There are many viable and better alternatives than what’s on that list. there’s really nothing there that should make you think “oh…I don’t know what to use now” most of the stuff listed is garbage anyways. Like take Zen Browser for example. you can essentially do that yourself on just about any fork of firefox by simply editing the userChrome.css. Librewolf is another example of “doing it yourself” on just about any fork or firefox or just firefox itself.
It might be trivial for you, but not for me. I like systemd - perhaps because I came to Linux from AIX? Anyway, because I like it, I use it on all 4 of my servers - I have custom systemd unit files for applications I run that don’t natively support it, I’ve removed cron and use systemd timers for all my scheduling and I use systemd’s remote journal capability to centralise logs to my monitoring server.
if you are not used to it you will have to learn it… that goes both ways…
and all the functionality you need were already in normal initfiles, cron and rsyslogd
my main issue with systemd always has been, that it centralises stuff that does not relate to each other into one single program instead of keeping it seperate and as simple as possible
I never said I can’t do it - I’ve been running different varieties of unix for over 35 years. I said it’s not trivial.
And, being a bit pedantic with your terminology - systemd does not “centralises stuff that does not relate to each other into one single program”. systemd, systemd-journald, systemd-networkd, systemd-resolved etc. etc. are all separate programs, provided by the systemd project, with their own configuration. You are free to pick and choose which parts of systemd you use and which you don’t.
All that being said - I am a bit over complexity of modern mainstream distributions and am now considering moving to Apline for my servers.
VLC doesn’t surprise me, dude rants all the time about how great vibe coding is.
Librewolf doesn’t surprise me.
Kitty 100% does NOT surprise me. The dev is an absolute tool who thinks his shit don’t stink but the guy has no clue what he’s doing at that end of the day. he rags on multiplexers or the simple act of copying via keyboard multiple lines in the terminal cause he DOESN’T know how to do it so therefore those things are “garbage”. of course he uses copilot, when it comes to AI he doesn’t even know of a “good” one to use. Don’t use Kitty, it’s slop from end to end. For example launch tmux in Kitty and then try to change your “kitten theme”…I’ll wait.
I think you might be confusing the columns there. Firefox is listed as project using Ai, Librewolf and Zen are listed as ‘alternatives’ (a bit silly, since they are soft forks, but whatevs). Neither seem to be listed for LLM usage.
Whenever I hear about kitty, it’s always about a negative experience with the dev. I myself have had a negative experience with him. Dude’s gonna go down in history as a bad example of how OSS devs conduct themselves
I’m happy with the terminal, though. It’s fine for my simple needs
This list will be way too long in the next years. Coding with the help of an LLM is useful and allows you to go to the solution very fast. If you know how to code, vibe coding is great.
If you wish to increase your sadness and dread a little more, have a look at this list
vlc and mpv? python?? the mesa drivers??? LINUX???
oh we’re so fucked
The list is genuinely stupid and lacks any nuance. See my other comments in this thread but this is sort of thing is where people who are anti-AI are shooting themselves in the foot and making the general public write off any genuine criticism as ridiculous.
Most of those projects allow AI to be used in the dev process and that’s it. That list includes projects that just document that things like AI line completion and similar can be used but code is still reviewed by at least one skilled human maintainer
The list combines those projects in with projects that are entirely AI written (vibe coded in the actual original sense) which just muddies the water on what’s actually problematic and not
This list and the reaction to the list is so funny to me.
Programmers are so fucked. Cant wait for the many, many smug idiots of the last 10-15 years struggle to find work.
And its not like many of them have the social skills to work the “unskilled” labor jobs so many of them deride.
Holy shit, my sides.
“Haha, people are going to struggle to eat and house themselves and probably die. Haha, my sides!”
Psychopath.
Time to start learning how to “prompt engineer” lmao
Well, speaking of social skills, you’ve entirely missed my point.
Or people should take it as a slap of reality that AI has gotten good enough to code because actual developers are using it.
Give it another year and this won’t even be a discussion anymore as every programmer will be using assisted coding in some manner.
just another year bro, trust me just another year and ai will do everything! yes i know i said this last year and the year before but this time it’s for real bro!
unless the ai companies can magically solve the poor code quality, the unethical training data, the environmental impacts, the deskilling of developers, and the strong dependency on themselves for your coding, all this in a year, allow me to doubt you.
The code quality is fine with the right prompts and guardrails, and companies don’t care about the other stuff.
I mean no I don’t believe they’ll do everything but compared to last year AI coding has made leaps and its kind of dumb to imagine technology will not continue to do so.
1 year ago vibe coding was not good enough to make it into code bases.
Im not some full on AI stan, so i share the same concerns you do on ethics and environmental impact. However I dont see how either of those matter in relation to code quality.
Code quality will is basically already good enough to be used mainstream, so I don’t know how you expect it to get worse. But sure feel free to revisit this in a year.
People have been consistently saying this for over a year at this point and it’s still the same garbage results as always. Just look at the recent Meta and Amazon issues with it producing nonsense and people just taking it at face value for some reason.
The only thing it’s gotten better at is making people rely on it.
well, my point is also partly that all developers won’t disregard all the concerns just because the code quality is good enough
and the ones that do, they and their projects should be shunned. hence the list.
The terms at the top are great.
Sloperator haha. Microsoft employee in other words.
Sadness and dread is a perfect description. As I started reading I was building a mental list of things to stop using - I didn’t get very far before I gave up. So many projects I’ve held up in high regard.
Sadness, dread and defeat.
Edit to add - I want to be clear that I’m not judging the developers of these projects. If they’re being overwhelmed with AI generated PRs, they’re being forced to use these tools in their “real jobs” and it spills over, or they just feel that this is the way things are going or whatever reason - they’ve got to do what they’ve got to do to survive. My sadness, dread and defeat comes from the state of the world and this is just the symptom that’s currently front of mind.
There are many viable and better alternatives than what’s on that list. there’s really nothing there that should make you think “oh…I don’t know what to use now” most of the stuff listed is garbage anyways. Like take Zen Browser for example. you can essentially do that yourself on just about any fork of firefox by simply editing the userChrome.css. Librewolf is another example of “doing it yourself” on just about any fork or firefox or just firefox itself.
Really?
My list of “not trivial to replace” is:
systemd is kinda trivial to replace, just look at devuan
It might be trivial for you, but not for me. I like systemd - perhaps because I came to Linux from AIX? Anyway, because I like it, I use it on all 4 of my servers - I have custom systemd unit files for applications I run that don’t natively support it, I’ve removed cron and use systemd timers for all my scheduling and I use systemd’s remote journal capability to centralise logs to my monitoring server.
if you are not used to it you will have to learn it… that goes both ways…
and all the functionality you need were already in normal initfiles, cron and rsyslogd
my main issue with systemd always has been, that it centralises stuff that does not relate to each other into one single program instead of keeping it seperate and as simple as possible
I never said I can’t do it - I’ve been running different varieties of unix for over 35 years. I said it’s not trivial.
And, being a bit pedantic with your terminology - systemd does not “centralises stuff that does not relate to each other into one single program”. systemd, systemd-journald, systemd-networkd, systemd-resolved etc. etc. are all separate programs, provided by the systemd project, with their own configuration. You are free to pick and choose which parts of systemd you use and which you don’t.
All that being said - I am a bit over complexity of modern mainstream distributions and am now considering moving to Apline for my servers.
Guess you missed the one that said the Linux Kernel. 🤣 😭
~Also,
wgetovercurl? 🤦♂️~VLC doesn’t surprise me, dude rants all the time about how great vibe coding is.
Librewolf doesn’t surprise me.
Kitty 100% does NOT surprise me. The dev is an absolute tool who thinks his shit don’t stink but the guy has no clue what he’s doing at that end of the day. he rags on multiplexers or the simple act of copying via keyboard multiple lines in the terminal cause he DOESN’T know how to do it so therefore those things are “garbage”. of course he uses copilot, when it comes to AI he doesn’t even know of a “good” one to use. Don’t use Kitty, it’s slop from end to end. For example launch tmux in Kitty and then try to change your “kitten theme”…I’ll wait.
?
I think you might be confusing the columns there. Firefox is listed as project using Ai, Librewolf and Zen are listed as ‘alternatives’ (a bit silly, since they are soft forks, but whatevs). Neither seem to be listed for LLM usage.
Librewolf is listed as an alternative.
Whenever I hear about kitty, it’s always about a negative experience with the dev. I myself have had a negative experience with him. Dude’s gonna go down in history as a bad example of how OSS devs conduct themselves
I’m happy with the terminal, though. It’s fine for my simple needs
Oh no… reading this, I think I just died a little inside… couldn’t finish the list…
This list will be way too long in the next years. Coding with the help of an LLM is useful and allows you to go to the solution very fast. If you know how to code, vibe coding is great.