We are talking about history facts, you didn’t know or worse, you ignored two of the biggest colonizing and conquest forces in the history of mankind and now you blame the west for something Islam is the king at.
Here is another history fact: there is no Spanish Empire without the Umayyad or the Ottoman Empire.
The worst thing about this conversation it that you aren’t even Muslim because they are proud of the Umayyad (not so much the Ottomans since they aren’t arabs)
We are talking about the current geopolitical configuration.
The argument presented is that in many Muslim-majority regions and states, the current political configuration is fundamentally a reaction to the imperialism and colonialism of the West.
Your examples are too deep in the past to be strongly relevant as antecedents to the current configuration, and also, fail in their attempt to paint Islam as exceptional.
You literally said no Muslim nation colonized the West which was a blatant lie.
Turkey, a Muslim nation, occupies Greek territory today.
Lebanon was a Christian nation until the 80s although they weren’t exactly conquered
They also tend to invade each other but that goes against your narrative too since you only care about west bad like every western nation has the same interests, although they should have a common interest in fighting islam.
I hope none of you defenders of Islam get to live in a Muslim ruled nation although you all deserve it.
Deeper in the past Muslim-majority states attacked the nearby fringes of the West, but the recent history is the West subduing most of the world as global imperialist hegemon.
It is the global imperialism of the West that directly accounts for reaction taking hold in such colonized regions.
I gave you modern examples (which you ignored) and that without mentioning Morocco which claims several western territorios and holds one that they took illegally which at best should be free and at worst an autonomous region.
You also disregarded the examples you were presented.
I am emphasizing that the current global imperialist hegemon is the West, and that there has never been another, which are not controversial, nor diminished by any of your examples.
As explained, the backward situation in Iran was directly a reaction of earlier interference by the UK.
Finally, your arrogant tone is not contributing to an appearance of your being clever or informed.
All you say is west bad, west responsible for every single evil in the world. People and nations are responsible for themselves in the XXI century, specially when some of those nations are among the richest in the world (Saudi, Qatar and Emirates for example)
Islam, as a religion is a religion of conquest as proven by their own book and, of course, their history. Their core belief is a universal caliphate in which everyone is muslim or subjugated by muslims (depends on the interpretation if you are a christian or jew you are ok, otherwise you are going to convert or die) and the universal caliphate is obtained through war and conquest. From the very beginning Muhammad raised an army and conquered cities,including Mecca, Muhammad lead by example because he was illiterate.
Islam is a religion of intolerance, where the different in prosecuted and punished, the apostate executed.
If that’s what you want you have plenty of places to go.
Regarding Iran it’s been 50 years, they are more than responsible for themselves, not so long ago they tried to fight it, this whole site was full of people supporting the people rebelling against the Islamic Republic of Iran ruled by a religious supreme leader and they were suppressed and killed by the Guidance a patrol a moral police
I have counterargument every single of your examples, I have fought your lies, I have exposed Islam which is easy because they don’t hide, you just keep repeating lies and blaming the west and ignoring all the harm Islam has caused and causes today without me mentioning Sharia Law until now.
Your examples are distant and incidental, in relation to the present, collected largely through cherry picking.
Regardless, western imperialism of the overarching power across the globe. All other systems are distorted to conform to its demands. Thus, it is quite apparently the root cause of problems around the world, especially problems that are geopolitical.
To repeat, Iranian society and government were broadly secular until after foreign intrusion. The colonial relation between Iran versus the US and UK occurs in only one direction.
It is counterproductive to locate primary responsibility other than in the root cause.
Iranian society and government were broadly secular until after foreign intrusion
The Sha was restored after the UK and Soviet interference (not exactly the west) and his authoritative policies lead to the revolution. He eliminated the islamic clergy influence in the government and public life in the 60’s, forced them to get official accreditation to preach and effectively banned them from parliament in the 70’s, the less radical islamists tried to create a democratic government, still islamic, but then the US embassy was taken and Khomeini took power.
And again, the occupation of Cyprus by a Muslim nation is more recent than the Iranian revolution.
The current state of Iran is a consequence of Islam, not the western, but go ahead, leftists of the world keep defending a religion that hangs homosexuals, forces genre change on people (this happens in Iran), fights sexual freedom, prosecutes people that think different, forces women to cover, allows child marriage, etc, etc.
Just because something is bad doesn’t make other thing good. Just because the west is bad, doesn’t make islam good. Just because at some point Iran was secular and prosperous under the Sha doesn’t mean the Sha wasn’t authoritative, the world rarely is black and white, you know what is black and white? Islam. The book is very clear. Islam is a scourge on the Earth as the Soviet Union was, the British Empire, American exceptionalist or the CCP.
Finally I have to point out how essentially you are in a thread about what being extreme-left means while defending a country in a time that was under an absolute monarchy rule, with and absolute king, the same one that was deposed in early 50’s was the one reinstated in the 60’s, so what are you exactly? You are obviously no muslim, because they are proud of the things I say (why wouldn’t they? they believe they are right) and you are obviously no leftist since you are defending an absoltue monarch.
We are talking about history facts, you didn’t know or worse, you ignored two of the biggest colonizing and conquest forces in the history of mankind and now you blame the west for something Islam is the king at.
Here is another history fact: there is no Spanish Empire without the Umayyad or the Ottoman Empire.
The worst thing about this conversation it that you aren’t even Muslim because they are proud of the Umayyad (not so much the Ottomans since they aren’t arabs)
We are talking about the current geopolitical configuration.
The argument presented is that in many Muslim-majority regions and states, the current political configuration is fundamentally a reaction to the imperialism and colonialism of the West.
Your examples are too deep in the past to be strongly relevant as antecedents to the current configuration, and also, fail in their attempt to paint Islam as exceptional.
You literally said no Muslim nation colonized the West which was a blatant lie.
Turkey, a Muslim nation, occupies Greek territory today.
Lebanon was a Christian nation until the 80s although they weren’t exactly conquered
They also tend to invade each other but that goes against your narrative too since you only care about west bad like every western nation has the same interests, although they should have a common interest in fighting islam.
I hope none of you defenders of Islam get to live in a Muslim ruled nation although you all deserve it.
Deeper in the past Muslim-majority states attacked the nearby fringes of the West, but the recent history is the West subduing most of the world as global imperialist hegemon.
It is the global imperialism of the West that directly accounts for reaction taking hold in such colonized regions.
I gave you modern examples (which you ignored) and that without mentioning Morocco which claims several western territorios and holds one that they took illegally which at best should be free and at worst an autonomous region.
I have educated you enough.
You also disregarded the examples you were presented.
I am emphasizing that the current global imperialist hegemon is the West, and that there has never been another, which are not controversial, nor diminished by any of your examples.
As explained, the backward situation in Iran was directly a reaction of earlier interference by the UK.
Finally, your arrogant tone is not contributing to an appearance of your being clever or informed.
All you say is west bad, west responsible for every single evil in the world. People and nations are responsible for themselves in the XXI century, specially when some of those nations are among the richest in the world (Saudi, Qatar and Emirates for example)
Islam, as a religion is a religion of conquest as proven by their own book and, of course, their history. Their core belief is a universal caliphate in which everyone is muslim or subjugated by muslims (depends on the interpretation if you are a christian or jew you are ok, otherwise you are going to convert or die) and the universal caliphate is obtained through war and conquest. From the very beginning Muhammad raised an army and conquered cities,including Mecca, Muhammad lead by example because he was illiterate.
Islam is a religion of intolerance, where the different in prosecuted and punished, the apostate executed.
If that’s what you want you have plenty of places to go.
Regarding Iran it’s been 50 years, they are more than responsible for themselves, not so long ago they tried to fight it, this whole site was full of people supporting the people rebelling against the Islamic Republic of Iran ruled by a religious supreme leader and they were suppressed and killed by the Guidance a patrol a moral police
I have counterargument every single of your examples, I have fought your lies, I have exposed Islam which is easy because they don’t hide, you just keep repeating lies and blaming the west and ignoring all the harm Islam has caused and causes today without me mentioning Sharia Law until now.
Your examples are distant and incidental, in relation to the present, collected largely through cherry picking.
Regardless, western imperialism of the overarching power across the globe. All other systems are distorted to conform to its demands. Thus, it is quite apparently the root cause of problems around the world, especially problems that are geopolitical.
To repeat, Iranian society and government were broadly secular until after foreign intrusion. The colonial relation between Iran versus the US and UK occurs in only one direction.
It is counterproductive to locate primary responsibility other than in the root cause.
The Sha was restored after the UK and Soviet interference (not exactly the west) and his authoritative policies lead to the revolution. He eliminated the islamic clergy influence in the government and public life in the 60’s, forced them to get official accreditation to preach and effectively banned them from parliament in the 70’s, the less radical islamists tried to create a democratic government, still islamic, but then the US embassy was taken and Khomeini took power.
And again, the occupation of Cyprus by a Muslim nation is more recent than the Iranian revolution.
The current state of Iran is a consequence of Islam, not the western, but go ahead, leftists of the world keep defending a religion that hangs homosexuals, forces genre change on people (this happens in Iran), fights sexual freedom, prosecutes people that think different, forces women to cover, allows child marriage, etc, etc.
Just because something is bad doesn’t make other thing good. Just because the west is bad, doesn’t make islam good. Just because at some point Iran was secular and prosperous under the Sha doesn’t mean the Sha wasn’t authoritative, the world rarely is black and white, you know what is black and white? Islam. The book is very clear. Islam is a scourge on the Earth as the Soviet Union was, the British Empire, American exceptionalist or the CCP.
Finally I have to point out how essentially you are in a thread about what being extreme-left means while defending a country in a time that was under an absolute monarchy rule, with and absolute king, the same one that was deposed in early 50’s was the one reinstated in the 60’s, so what are you exactly? You are obviously no muslim, because they are proud of the things I say (why wouldn’t they? they believe they are right) and you are obviously no leftist since you are defending an absoltue monarch.