Situation intensifies as Beijing condemns tanker seizures and US security chief calls to remove Nicolas Maduro from power.
  • Archangel1313@lemmy.caEnglish
    12·
    11 days ago

    Wow. There is so much make-believe bullshit in there, that I don’t even know how to respond to it all. I would just love to see you go back through that comment, and attach sources for any of your claims.

    I am no fan of the US, but I at least have the intellectual integrity to not just make shit up, to satisfy my pre-existing biases. Good grief, dude. Have you no shame?

    • Horse {they/them}@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
      3·
      11 days ago

      "Wow, there is so much that goes against my pre-existing biases that i will pretend that it is somehow difficult to analyze. I would just love for you to waste your time linking sources that i have almost certainly been linked before so that i can dismiss them out of hand without reading them.

      i am no fan of the us, despite believing everything they say about their enemies, but at least i have the intellectual laziness to simply call you a liar despite stating easily verifiable facts. good grief dude. do you condemn Hamas?"

    • freagle@lemmy.mlEnglish
      21·
      11 days ago

      Sorry friend, if this is all news to you, I am more than happy to source anything you want me to. Could you pick 3 claims that you don’t have sufficient evidence for? I will happily provide you with sources.

      • Archangel1313@lemmy.caEnglish
        1·
        11 days ago

        Nah, that’s ok, buddy…your firehose did the job. I don’t have the energy to sift through all that, and really have no inclination to defend the US. I think it’s fairly sad that you’re trying to put me in a position where you think should have to, in order to make a point.

        That’s pretty disingenuous, given the fact that I’ve repeatedly told you I don’t side with them. So, if you insist on putting me on their side of this conversation, then I’m out. Gaslight someone else.

        • freagle@lemmy.mlEnglish
          2·
          11 days ago

          Sorry you feel that way. The reality of the situation is that the US is a violent threat to every single nation on Earth and every administration since Obama has publicly declared a military focus on Asia. If you think China has no need to defend the geographical features most critical to its national defense, you can just say that. It’s not gaslighting. As you said, you already don’t support the US, so you don’t have to defend it. You just have to acknowledge that you’re in the wrong when you say that simply because the US has not done any overt piracy or committed war crimes in the SCS this is not sufficient to conclude that China has no legitimate security interests in controlling it.

          • Archangel1313@lemmy.caEnglish
            1·
            11 days ago

            Man, see you should try looking at this conversation from an external perspective. I say one thing…you make it all about the US. I say something else…you turn it back to being all about the US. I point out that you keep making everything all about the US…and you find a way to blame the US again.

            If I were a relationship counselor, my advice to you, would be that you should stop blaming other people for your problems, and start taking responsibility for your choices. Because as long as you are stuck in the mindset that everything you do, is someone else’s fault, you are never going to be able to move on with your life and grow as a person.

            But, what do I know? The US is terrible, so obviously China has no choice about anything. It’s inevitable that as long as the US exists, they will have no choice but to constantly react defensively to US influence. It’s pretty pathetic, that no one in charge of that country has any free will, to even try and do better than that. Right? US influence is simply too powerful.

            • freagle@lemmy.mlEnglish
              2·
              11 days ago

              That’s a very weird take. China absolutely has free will and it is using it to advance its national interests. One of those national interests is national defense. Defense against whom, we might ask? Defense against Zimbabwe? No. Defense against Denmark? No. Defense against Uruguay? No. China’s national defense posture is specifically shaped based on the threats it faces from the Western empire and its vassals.

              Is that a lack of free will or is it an acknowledgement of the reality of the power structure of the world. It is absolutely true that the US truncates the national self direction of other nations. Every nation on earth would rather spend its efforts and wealth on making life better for itself. But instead, the US went and dropped two nukes in civilian cities and then carpet bombed and napalmed a handful of Asian nations and killed millions of people and made them suffer for generations from the after effects of nuclear and chemical warfare. So now everyone that the US treats as an adversary essentially has no choice but to establish sufficient military deterrence and defensive capabilities to prevent the US from flattening their country, killing their people, and stealing all of their resources.

              If you were a relationship counselor and told China to just not worry about the USA, you’d have to deal with the guilt when the USA murdered your client. You don’t tell the victim of abuse to just not respond to threats of violence. Victims of abuse and facing threats of violence must act to protect themselves or they have a very high likelihood to end up dead. This is not an abdication of self determination but an assertion of it.

              The fact that you can’t see that is very bizarre. It’s almost as if you cannot acknowledge that China has legitimate national security concerns and therefore it should follow all international laws like a good little world citizen and not worry so much about the fact that the US has spent 20+ years planning attacks and putting capabilities into positions specifically to counter Chinese defenses.

              From an external perspective in the US, I agree with you - US residents are the most propagandized people in the world and they can’t imagine that China would ever do any of what it’s doing because of the real legitimate threat of violence from the US. But outside the US and the white supremacists here and in the EU, most people would see this conversation and think “wow. Archangel really does not understand what’s going in the world”