• naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      2 days ago

      In political science, a proxy war is an armed conflict where at least one of the belligerents is directed or supported by an external third-party power.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_war

      The russian federation under Putin is persuing Putin’s own objectives. Ukrain is being supported by the EU, the usa, and protectorates such as Australia.

      I think this is beyond debate? If you feel a need to establish consensus on these basic details then please indicate so. If you were merely mistaken about the definition of a proxy war then please, for clarity, say so.

      • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        So invading other countries is fine as long as those countries have allies supporting them, on the grounds that it’s a “proxy” war?

        • naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          2 days ago

          That’s exactly what I said. Well done, have a gold star for achieving 7 year old reading comprehension.

          Actually subtract that star because you’re too damn proud to admit you were mistaken, which is approximately 2 year old developmental level.

          • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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            2 days ago

            So we’re back where we started, only now you’ve insulted me for not supporting Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. Russia could have ended this at any time by just leaving Ukraine be.

            • naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              2 days ago

              Let’s trace your shifting goalposts, since you seem to have the memory of a goldfish:

              You initially implied Russia was a proxy for someone, questioning the term “proxy war.”

              When provided with the basic definition and the clear fact that Ukraine is the primary entity receiving direct external support to fight a war against a larger power, you had no substantive counter.

              So now, you abandon the entire factual premise of the discussion and swerve into a moralistic declaration about the invasion being wrong.

              You attempted a “gotcha” on terminology, failed, and now pretend the original debate was always about the morality of invasion. No one argued that invading was good.

              Your insistence on reducing everything to “Russia bad, therefore Ukraine good” is exactly the liberal masquerade alsaaas called out. You conflate opposing Russian imperialism with endorsing the Ukrainian state or NATO’s project. You cannot hold two thoughts at once: that Russia is an imperialist aggressor and that the Ukrainian government is a corrupt, conscripting capitalist regime fighting a proxy war for Western interests that do not align with those of its own or the international proletariat.

              • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                2 days ago

                So now, you abandon the entire factual premise of the discussion and swerve into a moralistic declaration about the invasion being wrong.

                No, I returned to the point you never debunked and attempted to distract from:

                One invaded the other. One is actively acting like an imperialist power and the other is not.

                You conflate opposing Russian imperialism with endorsing the Ukrainian state or NATO’s project.

                You have no desire to oppose Russian imperialism because you’re an imperialist to your very core.