There is so much voter apathy. Voters don’t care anymore if the representatives-- who is supposed to represent them-- don’t care to begin with. Why vote for someone who keeps pretending, when you can elect someone authentic for better or worse?
The fact that you’re continuing this point makes me feel like you’re an apologist to this administration. Do you feel that trading in a bad thing for an equally bad thing is progression? I would argue that it doesn’t matter why people have decided to vote in the way of Trump, it matters a lot what will happen after his term ends. Bringing the perspective of “Voters are just apathetic to the current system “ doesn’t bring into focus the real issues the country is grappling with. It is about lack of education, lack of resources, and people who are too distracted trying to survive, they cannot dedicate true cognitive function to much else. If you want to ignore all the systemic suppression and abuse- then yes; let’s focus on the more pressing matter, the fact that politicians come across as uncaring spin doctors.
I actually smirk everytime someone says I am being an apologist for making dispassionate analysis on a situation. It’s not apologia, it’s diagnosing a symptom. Voting for a crude politician is a protest vote on the false high brow-ing on the masses and sophistry of meanstream politicians, who always make up bureaucratic reasons not to actually do what their constituents want. It’s an implicit message on the politicians to do a better job on the issues you mentioned.
If you talk to many right wing voters, they are pretty articulate and smart, and actually agree on many left wing policies. Someone mentioned before that by his/her estimation, of the ten Trump voters he/she know, about four like Bernie Sanders. The real cause of the problem is class issue and voters want someone outside the status quo. Bernie and Trump are those options, but we know who won and favoured more by vested interests. At least the left is learning its lessons now with the rise of Mamdani.
Yes, and historically smart and articulate people aren’t subject to manipulation and propaganda.
You will be smirking for the rest of your life; because you are absolutely an apologist. The whataboutism doesn’t mean you are pinpointing a cause, it means you have acknowledged A cause. Unfortunately this world is rife with many people like you, who by making excuses for powerful and dangerous people feel as if it now follows the logic of life. I’m sure that plenty of people under the third reich also had justifications like this.
What I’m saying is nothing new. Political analysts including Zizek are saying the exact same thing. The implicit message of the analysis is for the politicians to listen to electorate and do a better job, and for the electorate themselves to hold their politicians more accountable, and stop marginalising the working class disaffected by outsourcing.
Again, you are bringing up A reason. Not even the most important reasoning. It is a facet of the problem, but not one that if solved would address any real issues.
The problem is the access to education and resources, people who are richer than billions upon billions of people getting tax breaks and lobbying, affordability, childcare and welfare. Is it your stance that any of the things I just mentioned are less important than whether you can take the word of a politician?
You should know that for centuries people have rarely trusted politicians, yet their actions and words still have had positive impacts on America. The current administration not only doesn’t care about professionalism, protecting Americans, or any of the aforementioned subjects; but you think it’s because voters are apathetic? I don’t understand at this point, how you aren’t embarrassed by your personal fallacies. I’m embarrassed for you.
I’m not giving A reason, I’m stating a symptom of the problem.
You think Democrat neoliberals and Republican neoconservatives before Trump are better, because you thought that there is professionalism, even though they are under the pockets of the corporate lobbying, and gerrymander elections; the very same things that MAGA and Democrats have been doing all the time and still doing. The difference is that previously politicians lie, while the new administration doesn’t even pretend. Voters are apathetic because why would politicians lie when everyone can see that they are? Why vote for a snake in the grass, when one can vote for a snake in the open field?
I’m saying all these so that people would do something. All the things you mentioned such as lack of education and tax breaks are problems, problems that mainstream politicians don’t want to fix. Precisely the point. Put yourself in the perspective of the working class who work three jobs and 60% of their income goes to rent. If the snakes in the grass don’t want to fix them at all because they are under pocket of corporations, what is the point? You have a party that is either a closeted fascist or fascist-enabler, and then a party that is full on fascist. From the tired working class voters, what’s the difference? They are still not getting their free healthcare and education and affordable housing that the rest of developed countries enjoy.
It sounds paradoxical but voting for Trump fascism is a protest vote. If the affluent liberals get off their high horses and actually live the lived experience of 60% of Americans living paycheck to paycheck, then they would understand. And yet the same liberals who preach about social justice are the ones who keep voting down affordable housing, because they are also property owners, whose house value don’t want to go down by such projects. You can’t have social justice without economic justice. Sure the Democrats are pro-lgbt and minority rights, but if their corporate-friendly, poverty-inducing economic policies are not helping anyone regardless of race, gender and religion, then from the perspective of average voters, what’s the difference between a snake in the grass and the snake in the open field? One pretends to care and the other doesn’t pretend. Both are still snakes. That’s why the expression “choose the lesser evil” that many Democrats love to use is silly. Are they saying they’re also evil? I don’t see many liberals want to primary out establishment Democrats, and instead rail on “choose the lesser evil” tactic. How do you expect average voters not to feel apathetic? At least with AI starting to cause lay offs in many areas, the affluent smug liberals looking down and calling the 60% of Americans living pay check to pay check and Appalachians whose jobs are outsourced, as stupid, are starting to feel why the demagogues are getting elected.
If you want an answer, here it is, I didn’t think I need to spell it out to you. And I’m tired doing this to Americans who are in their own version of Orwellian thought policing and new speak.
At this point, you should just talk to an LLM because I don’t have the energy or want to teach you where your education system and those who were supposed to teach you failed.
There is so much voter apathy. Voters don’t care anymore if the representatives-- who is supposed to represent them-- don’t care to begin with. Why vote for someone who keeps pretending, when you can elect someone authentic for better or worse?
Don’t want to eat poop? Why not vomit?
The fact that you’re continuing this point makes me feel like you’re an apologist to this administration. Do you feel that trading in a bad thing for an equally bad thing is progression? I would argue that it doesn’t matter why people have decided to vote in the way of Trump, it matters a lot what will happen after his term ends. Bringing the perspective of “Voters are just apathetic to the current system “ doesn’t bring into focus the real issues the country is grappling with. It is about lack of education, lack of resources, and people who are too distracted trying to survive, they cannot dedicate true cognitive function to much else. If you want to ignore all the systemic suppression and abuse- then yes; let’s focus on the more pressing matter, the fact that politicians come across as uncaring spin doctors.
I actually smirk everytime someone says I am being an apologist for making dispassionate analysis on a situation. It’s not apologia, it’s diagnosing a symptom. Voting for a crude politician is a protest vote on the false high brow-ing on the masses and sophistry of meanstream politicians, who always make up bureaucratic reasons not to actually do what their constituents want. It’s an implicit message on the politicians to do a better job on the issues you mentioned.
If you talk to many right wing voters, they are pretty articulate and smart, and actually agree on many left wing policies. Someone mentioned before that by his/her estimation, of the ten Trump voters he/she know, about four like Bernie Sanders. The real cause of the problem is class issue and voters want someone outside the status quo. Bernie and Trump are those options, but we know who won and favoured more by vested interests. At least the left is learning its lessons now with the rise of Mamdani.
Yes, and historically smart and articulate people aren’t subject to manipulation and propaganda.
You will be smirking for the rest of your life; because you are absolutely an apologist. The whataboutism doesn’t mean you are pinpointing a cause, it means you have acknowledged A cause. Unfortunately this world is rife with many people like you, who by making excuses for powerful and dangerous people feel as if it now follows the logic of life. I’m sure that plenty of people under the third reich also had justifications like this.
What I’m saying is nothing new. Political analysts including Zizek are saying the exact same thing. The implicit message of the analysis is for the politicians to listen to electorate and do a better job, and for the electorate themselves to hold their politicians more accountable, and stop marginalising the working class disaffected by outsourcing.
Again, you are bringing up A reason. Not even the most important reasoning. It is a facet of the problem, but not one that if solved would address any real issues. The problem is the access to education and resources, people who are richer than billions upon billions of people getting tax breaks and lobbying, affordability, childcare and welfare. Is it your stance that any of the things I just mentioned are less important than whether you can take the word of a politician? You should know that for centuries people have rarely trusted politicians, yet their actions and words still have had positive impacts on America. The current administration not only doesn’t care about professionalism, protecting Americans, or any of the aforementioned subjects; but you think it’s because voters are apathetic? I don’t understand at this point, how you aren’t embarrassed by your personal fallacies. I’m embarrassed for you.
I’m not giving A reason, I’m stating a symptom of the problem.
You think Democrat neoliberals and Republican neoconservatives before Trump are better, because you thought that there is professionalism, even though they are under the pockets of the corporate lobbying, and gerrymander elections; the very same things that MAGA and Democrats have been doing all the time and still doing. The difference is that previously politicians lie, while the new administration doesn’t even pretend. Voters are apathetic because why would politicians lie when everyone can see that they are? Why vote for a snake in the grass, when one can vote for a snake in the open field?
I’m saying all these so that people would do something. All the things you mentioned such as lack of education and tax breaks are problems, problems that mainstream politicians don’t want to fix. Precisely the point. Put yourself in the perspective of the working class who work three jobs and 60% of their income goes to rent. If the snakes in the grass don’t want to fix them at all because they are under pocket of corporations, what is the point? You have a party that is either a closeted fascist or fascist-enabler, and then a party that is full on fascist. From the tired working class voters, what’s the difference? They are still not getting their free healthcare and education and affordable housing that the rest of developed countries enjoy.
It sounds paradoxical but voting for Trump fascism is a protest vote. If the affluent liberals get off their high horses and actually live the lived experience of 60% of Americans living paycheck to paycheck, then they would understand. And yet the same liberals who preach about social justice are the ones who keep voting down affordable housing, because they are also property owners, whose house value don’t want to go down by such projects. You can’t have social justice without economic justice. Sure the Democrats are pro-lgbt and minority rights, but if their corporate-friendly, poverty-inducing economic policies are not helping anyone regardless of race, gender and religion, then from the perspective of average voters, what’s the difference between a snake in the grass and the snake in the open field? One pretends to care and the other doesn’t pretend. Both are still snakes. That’s why the expression “choose the lesser evil” that many Democrats love to use is silly. Are they saying they’re also evil? I don’t see many liberals want to primary out establishment Democrats, and instead rail on “choose the lesser evil” tactic. How do you expect average voters not to feel apathetic? At least with AI starting to cause lay offs in many areas, the affluent smug liberals looking down and calling the 60% of Americans living pay check to pay check and Appalachians whose jobs are outsourced, as stupid, are starting to feel why the demagogues are getting elected.
If you want an answer, here it is, I didn’t think I need to spell it out to you. And I’m tired doing this to Americans who are in their own version of Orwellian thought policing and new speak.
At this point, you should just talk to an LLM because I don’t have the energy or want to teach you where your education system and those who were supposed to teach you failed.
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